we already hand them something for nothing, they're called food stamps and link cards, which they have done NOTHING to earn!

They're already driving here and causing accidents. Would you rather they not have insurance to pay for their damage? Who pays then? We all do. Not giving them a drivers license won't drive them out. You have to deal with the problem at hand, and not wanting illegals around won't be solved by refusing them drivers licenses.

"Damn Irish! They cause all the problems!"
-Random Chicagoan, circa 1835
"Damn Polacks! They cause all the problems!"
-Random Irish Chicagoan, circa 1840
"Damn Germans! They cause all the problems!"
-Random Polish Chicagoan, circa 1850
"Damn Italians! They cause all the problems!"
-Random German Chicagoan, circa 1890
"Damn Jews! They cause all the problems!"
-Random Italian Chicagoan, circa 1950

Need I continue?

Ellie, no you don't need to continue because you missed the point. All the folks you mentioned came thru Ellis Island and were here legally. The issue at hand is about those who come here ILLEGALLY. Wise up.

Ernie Souchak,
Nope, YOU missed the point. Every new group is scapegoated. It's the American way. (A tradition that we shouldn't be proud of, of course, but nevertheless a part of our culture).

The idea that previous immigrants came here legally (and are therefore somehow "better") is a laughable comparison because anyone could be let in as long as they weren't Chinese or "idiots, lunatics, convicts, and persons likely to become a public charge."

I think that something is better than nothing it will make it easier for the illiegals that are waiting on the laws to change so they can gain there citizenship. It will also make it so they have to have insurance which benfits us Americans. I think that some people do not think about how hard it is for illegals to can citizenship, you act like they like being illegal and braking the law.

Many of the worst drivers are women so are you insinuating that drug testing would prevent women from purse fishing? Perhaps old people are just trying to disguise their hard core drug use. I commute daily - I cannot tell you how many times I see women looking for stuff in their car. People are smarter about cell phones now - they place them in their lap but all you have to do is look at them in their rear view mirror to know what they are doing.

Jeff, do a little research before making uninformed, unsubstantiated, misogynist statements. Statistically, women are better drivers than men, based on accident severity rates and tickets. Read this: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=788126
Here's a brief summary to help you better understand:
So who are better drivers: men or women? In a study released by Quality Planning, an analytics company that validates policyholder information for auto insurers, women came out on top. The study analyzed different kinds of vehicle code violations (traffic violations) and then compared how many times men were cited versus women. The conclusion was that men break more traffic laws and drive more dangerously than women. Because they violate laws designed to make the roads safer, men cause more accidents and expensive damage.
"We were not surprised to see that men have slightly more violations — about 5 percent — that result in accidents than women," said Raj Bhat, president of Quality Planning. "And because men are also more likely to violate laws for speeding, passing and yielding, the resulting accidents caused by men lead to more expensive claims than those caused by women."
Topping the list is the finding that men are cited for reckless driving 3.41 more times than women. Reckless driving is considered one of the most serious traffic offenses by courts since it implies a disregard for the rights and safety of people or property.

Laura - substantiation: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/women_worse_drivers_more_crashes_than_men_less_driving.html - thanks for the synopsis though - saved me some reading. Articles aside all I have to use to support my claim is my experience driving 50 miles daily in Chicago. That and having lived through 15 years of riding shotgun with my wife and the grey hair that goes along with that. My data has nothing to do with crashes but rather people sitting at green lights, stopping 50 feet from the car in front of them, driving 40 in a 55 while talking on a phone, etc. Anyway - I guess we will have to agree to disagree - just do me a favor and try to keep your car off the sidewalks. :)

Jeff, dear, it might help if you read the studies you are citing. Your own study said thus: "On the other hand, AOL Autos suggests the data may be a result of gender stereotypes dominating driving behaviors." I'd also imagine that a study supported by the insurance industry might have a more vested interest in valid outcomes than a UofMich study from profs with no expertise in the insurance industry. Your study's data end in 2007: must have been a slow news day in Syracuse this month to cite a UofMich study with data from 2007, huh? Also, Jeff, I'd imagine your misogynist (i.e., gender-based) attitudes likely contributed to your WIFE's gray hairs. But, I forgot, THAT doesn't matter in your little corner of the male-dominated universe. So please, do try to keep you mis-shapened rear end out of the intersection after the light has changed, will you? You and your ill-informed, bigoted ilk no longer rule the universe; get used to it! LMAO!!

Laura – I like you attitude – you must honestly believe what you are saying which is hilarious. Seriously though – how long do you think you can continue this charade? Your incessant use of lesser used words (quick write that down) means you also think you are educated or perhaps you just like repeating the ‘word of the day’ because it stuck? You would probably retain a lot more of them if you weren’t getting them from your iPhone while driving the wrong way on Kingery. Let your man drive if you have one assuming he can tolerate your amazonian feminist, “protected”, domineering personality. Remember – having a man doesn’t equate to having a pair of testicles mounted as a hood ornament from your last victim or hanging them from your rear view and using them to blend the rouge in behind the wheel.

Jeff, then at least I would HAVE testicles, wouldn't I? LMAO. What a sorry excuse for a an evolved, modern man you are. And vocabulary is something an educated person acquires and uses; you clearly are unfamiliar with either! Have a nice life, Oh Enlightened One. Cheers!

Perhaps knowing the difference between "hole" and "whole" should be a requirement for...

Despiser, don't forget free cell phone, Oh wait they get that already. Let's see criminals dont buy gun legally. What makes you think illegals will really come forward.

I couldnt agree with you more..this just means more ready votes to keep the morons in office. Did you know the illegals dont have to furnish ssn for their kids that overburden our schools either? kick all the illegal bums out!

Did you see the news yesterday where an illegal received a free kidney transplant from Loyola? What is going on?

totally agree here !!!!!

I agree with roger.

I agree roger! send the illegals back to their own country on the piece of driftwood they floated in on!

Kristine, He got the new Kidney and then complained about the cost of the Meds.

Are you kidding? Before you can renew your license plates you have to fill out the form stating your insurance company, policy # & expiraton date. So, how come so many people (legal & illegal) are arrested for not having insuance?

I was simply referring to the irony in Lt. Gov. Simon's statement.

Try and get in trouble in Mexico, they may never find you.

Maybe if we treated them worse than their own countries, which we really should, maybe they'd stop coming here? lol

Not gonna happen!!! These will be new voters for the Dems... The more immigrants from south of the border the better, whether legal or not... Let's face some facts, unless republicans immediately call for amnesty for illegals and or call for an open border, we will NEVER get a substantial portion of hispanic votes... Blacks in this country will never vote republican either. I hate to say it, but the party of redistribution has kind of set themselves up pretty good... Remember in 1956 Khrushchev said in reference to capitalism, "Мы вас похороним!" (My vas pokhoronim!), translated to "We will bury you". This phrase, ambiguous both in the English language and in the Russian language, was interpreted in several ways. Later, he would refer back to the comment and state, "I once got in trouble for saying, 'We will bury you'. Of course, we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you". Looks like good old Nikita was right on the money... We are moving towards becoming a nanny state. The dems are ruining this country with their entitlements and unheard of numbers of public workers sucking off of us taxpayers... Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night...

Very well said despiser of obama!!!

Insurance companies are behind most everything.
I agree Carolyn. Illegal is illegal. Deport them.
Suddenly, if they can get past border patrol they are home free. Nonsense.

They'll just get a license...nobody said they will actually register the vehicles or buy insurance! But now they will have State of Illinois ID to trade on. Look to Michigan and Wisconsin for how well this worked out.

I agree Carolyn. Deport, deport, deport!!

There's a loophole in your state that allows them to cancel the policy the very next DAY after they get their license or car registration, without any follow-up. I worked in the industry. Throw the "so now they'll have insurance" ideal right out the window! If they do get insurance, it will be the state minimum $20/40/10K liability coverages which is about equal to zilch anyway.

Carolyn - this issue came about many years ago and the bill was pushed by insurance companies. It's not a secret to why they want the people driving without licenses to have them, so you buy insurance. The point is, they are already driving. All this will do is make them pass an actual test.

Keep in mind that Obama wasn't elected or re-elected based on his ability to lead!

haha but he was reelected so get over urself

And do not allow the employment of them. The employers should be finder heavily.

I meant -- Fined. Sorry.

Twenty plus years ago , before the city of Chicago cllaimed "sanctuary status" for illegals. Mayor Daley gave non-citizen parents the right to register to vote and cast ballots in LOCAL elections. . Daley claimed that even if parents were illegal they should still have input in electing school boards and park districts which wowuld raise test scores for minorities.

To date ..both the park disticts and school board trustees are non- elected appointments chosen by the mayor. And over two hundred thousand non-citizens have registed to vote.

Constitutionally one must be over 18 years of age, established residency and be a US citizens to vote in federal elections. We're talking oval office and congress now. Unfortunately there is no way of screening non-citizens ( or no effort put in place to screen non-citizens) who illegally vote in federal election .......to the point that election judges can not ask a voter if he is a citizen and legally entitled to vote. This is why we need voter ID cards .

Read this link and see how your senators voted and take note of who co-sponsored this bill.

<< I would prefer the patch to use undocumented immigrant rather than the dehumanizing term of 'illegal' >> And bank robbers would prefer that you call their work "undocumented bank withdrawals"" That said, something needs to be done, and the immigration policy which forced so many to act illegally certainly needs changing....

Also call it undocumented rape and murder, not illegal.

Trying to water things down a bit?? What's next murders being considered assisted suicide partners?

This election was not lost due to this reason and this reason alone.

They come here illegally, the bring the term on themselves. I don't think they really care. Everyone else is required to be a citizen and keep there insurance current. This will not make our roads any safer.

Immigrants receive "free medical coverage, food stamps and all these other entitlements"?? Hm, interesting.. can you please name 5 you know take advantage of these benefits? This is obviously incorrect. Immigrants pays taxes, a lot of them, own homes, send off their kids to college, and get by without health insurance.

do any of you know how hard it is for and illegal citizen to become legal? If you knew how hard it is you would not talk so foolish!!!

XD best comment here! Very good sir!

Anyone who has lived in this state for longer than one minute understands that Illinois is notorious for screwing things up, including the simple things. So pardon the taxpayers for having our doubts on a program that you say is "Temporary".

Last "Temporary" program that I remember was the Toll Roads too. Where is that today? More like Permanent status.

Good try Jose.

Jose, My daughter registered to vote online (https://ovr.elections.il.gov/default.aspx) and did not have to "show" her DL to anyone. All that was required was to check a couple of boxes and enter the DL number. Why would these "illegals" show up to get a Drivers License anyway?? They would be giving their names and addresses to the gov't, and now paying for insurance??? I don't see them wanting to pay for insurance and give up their anonymity... There is NOTHING in it for them...

Do you really think anyone is going to check the address to see if it is valid? You'll have 200 people registered to live at one house somewhere...

This world is upside down Brittany

I'm pretty sure 90% do pay taxes with a TIN number google it maybe u will learn something... get fact be4 u talk

Re: Patch police reports, Thomas R., who do you know "they" are illegal. Are you aware that in some parts of this country, the Hispanic population is now greater in number than the white population?

Ted, that is both very sad and troubling if that is fact, which I wouldn't doubt and its just going to keep increasing unless we do something! Soon we white people will be the minorities if we don't act fast!

I sure hope so.

They're not criminals, per se.

This is so true. While performing my job duties I have discovered 100's of illegals living in the basements and storerooms of resturants and other businesses. I report it but nothing ever gets done.

take a look at who works for the gov't!!! Those jobs are not being filled by the brightest of bulbs my friend.

Actually, Jolene, the American Indian and indigenous people throughout North and South Americas likely did migrate here from Asia via the Bering Strait. That's been in the history books since at least the 1970s -- when I was in high school. The Europeans who then came to this country did their level best to isolate and control them.

Yes Ted, that makes them the first people here, which makes them the original citizens. The English, Spanish and french came here and killed many of them and took their land.

Wow Bunky, you are assuming this woman is not a citizen and you are talking about "all the kids" she wants to have?" Learn our language"?? Your comments are offensive.So you met some mexican teenagers who hate whites? maybe they said that to you after they heard you talk! Please stop, Stereotypes dehumanize!

So u retard! For u spanish mean imigrants....what about other leguages? Go back to the school!

What if a person of European descent was here illegally? Send them back too?

Regardless what Country they came from. If you are here illegal send them back. I have a friend here from India and when he had 4 months left on his work visa the government hounded him and said once the visa expired he was going back to India or he better get his citizenship papers in order.

@Despiser of Vera First lets take care of the illegal mexican bounder jumpers takin all our jobs and then lets worry about the Europena Immigrants!

You mean YOUR values Keith... Your values are not necessarily the correct ones. Have you ever considered that??

Okay, what are your values then - sir/madam?

You know they won't do it Mike!!!

It is not criminal.

Not all undocumented persons are mexican, nor are they greedy or the world's criminal cast-offs. Saddens me to see racism and discrimination is alive and well. Where is the America I believe in? Ever heard of lady liberty? I guess we need to ship her back..."Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

uofialum, Are you kidding me?? What percentage of illegals are NOT from south of the border????? I don't care what their nationality is, they come from south of the border.

That's a solid point. Can't argue with that. But I can't help but wonder...so it's ok for these people to come into the country unchecked, roam around where ever they want, and possibly commit a crime and it's no big deal if we can't identify them then? But if they get into a car accident thank God we can now identify them so they can be sued?

Agreed 100%. This is about safety for *everyone* on the road, it's practical. Whether we like it or not, there will always be undocumented people and the process of deportation isn't as simple as catching them and sending them back home. It takes a lot of resources which are simply not available.

The point is that you are able to purchase (yes, another "cost" of illegal immigration passed on to us) uninsured and under-insured coverage. What is the benefit to these illegal immigrants stepping forward to get a license and pay for insurance. WHY would they do so? What do they gain??

Agreed. These will be democrat voters once they have been granted amnesty.

What do you mean by people who pay ridiculous amounts of money for not having a drivers license?

Amen brother

Exactly why democrats need to be voted out of office...

interesting stats...Hispanics, fine...what are the stats on citizens versus non-citizens? What you also didn't research is that prisons are making big bucks in detaining particularly undocumented persons-while they wait deportation. Talk about wasting U.S. dollars. Prisons get $30,000 a year to keep each undocumented person in jail, rather than actually deporting him or her.

Despiser of Obama, you might want to look back at your own roots in this nation and consider the hatred and bigotry our forebears had to endure.

The hatred and bigotry I read in these comments makes me very sad, particularly because these same types of behavior arise very generation or so with each new wave of immigrants. In the late 1970s and 1980s, the vitriol was directed at the Hmong tribesmen and Laotian refugees; since then it has been those of Middle Eastern descent and Hispanics; before that, it was the Chinese, the Irish, the Germans, the Japanese, the Italians, the Czechs, the Poles ... etc.

It's a sad reflection on our ability as a nation to learn from our history and mature so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past. People focus on the term illegal immigration today, but the diatribes are the same. Sad.

Ted, Do you write opinion pieces for the Patch, or are you supposed to be an unbiased reporter of the news. I think that it's important that you explain to those on this thread what your role with the Patch is. If you are a writer of opinions, then I welcome yours, but if you are supposed to be an unbiased reporter of the news, then I'm curious as to the opinions being expressed. Fill me in!!!

@NotBuyingIt I am a reporter. I have no strong feeling one way or the other on the driver's license issue. On one level, in terms of public safety, it makes sense; however, I understand the viewpoint that it seems to contradict the law.

I consider myself a-partisan -- meaning I have equal levels of respect and disrespect for the two political parties. Finally, I do have rather strong feelings as they relate to racism, bigotry and intolerance.

Here is another fact that somewhere along the line has been twisted and turned. Unbiased has come to be interpreted in terms of journalism as not expressing an opinion. Yet when a reporter points out a truth, historical or otherwise, those who will not accept that truth cry foul. That is rubbish.

Okay, so you are not an unbiased reporter of news. That's all you had to say. You claim to not have a bias, but that is clearly not the case as evidenced by your expressed opinions. I have no problem with that as long as you are up front about it. Thanks for being up front.

@NotBuyingIt I stand by my statement, not the words you have so blatantly twisted to your own purpose.

I have no opinion on the driver's license issue. I do not write with bias unless I am writing an opinion piece, and I write few of those. When I report, I leave my opinion out of the story as I was trained.

I do point out lies and deception when I encounter them, as any good, honest journalist should do. I would include racism and bigotry among the lies and deception that should always be exposed for what they are.

You seem to interpret that as a bias. In that case, I would suggest all good journalists do have a bias -- for reporting truth.

But you are not the arbiter of "truth". Your truth may differ from someone else's truth. You don't get to decide truth. I am saying that you have interjected "your truths" into your posts. You have an agenda. You have your opinion. Your "training" for objective reporting has failed you. I may be hyper-sensitive to bias in news media, but I ask others to read your posts and reflect.

@NotBuyingIt That's moral relativism at its worst. There is such a thing as absolute truth. Sometimes, particularly on issues like immigration, there is a fine line between truth and racism/bigotry. Usually, the racism/bigotry manifests itself when people are confronted with facts that refute their opinions, for example, or when the individual is unable to formulate a logical, fact-based rationale for the opinion. Sprinkled throughout this thread are the telltale warning signs that racism/bigotry exists. One is the broad generalization; another is name-calling or belittling those who disagree. Sadly, some people believe these are good debate tactics when in fact they're an effective but shallow means of political posturing to promote an agenda -- effective because they push emotional buttons, shallow because there is often is little reasoning involved.

Ted, you rock!

You have presented us with a false premise. You say that there is a "fine line between truth and racism/bigotry". I say you are LOOKING for bigotry and racism in every statement on this issue. Ted, there have been racist statements in this thread, I wont deny that, however, most of the folks would feel EXACTLY the same if it were Russians, Canadians, Irish, Turks, French, Spaniards, Norwegians (sneaky bastards... jk) or any other group from outside of our borders... Really it's not because they are Mexicans... It's because they cheat. They don't follow the rules... You think anyone would be happy if millions of French started coming across our southern border. Living here without learning the language.. We would feel exactly the same were it any other group from any other nation. THAT IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You write, "Usually, the racism/bigotry manifests itself when people are confronted with facts that refute their opinions, for example, or when the individual is unable to formulate a logical, fact-based rationale for the opinion". Maybe that happens, maybe not. Thay may be your experience monitoring racists and bigots, but maybe that's just your view and not the TRUTH. MAYBE you just attribute racism and bigotry to those that have an opinion different from yours. Again I ask, who made you the arbiter of "truth". I have seen what may be described as racist comments in this thread. I don't think THAT negates their position for not allowing illegals to get DLs

And yes, MM, Ted does kinda rock!! :)

Mik, speak for yourself. If you are selfish fine, that's on you, but you don't know how unselfish Americans really are. Don't speak for the rest of us

Mik obviously wants to see his taxes raised!

to become legal takes years and there are thousands waiting in line to do so, the right way, so coming here illegally is unfair to anyone else who has waited to beome a citizen fairly

Kristen, you write: "I really hope this passes!!! This will help so many ppl US citizen or not." Please explain to me exactly HOW this will "help" so many people. How will this help anyone?? Seriously, HOW will this help???

Joe, I think it's interesting how you look at this issue as if you completely disconnected from it. How many times have you eaten at a restaurant? Don't you see that the reason behind you eating out for $20 is the fact that there are illegals preparing your food for next to nothing? It's easy to look at this topic in an "us vs. them" way, but it is not that simple.

@NotBuyingIt A quick skim through your comments leads me to believe that you do not make arguments to support your positions, but merely add a dash of anger, a pinch of passion, until the concoction comes out as persuasive.

and what's wrong with that?? You want an argument to support a legislative initiative?? It sounds like you don't like my style. I can live with that!! Which position have I not supported to your satisfaction Keith?? Be specific and I will attempt to enlighten you.

There is no way for someone from another country to become a citizen of the United States? Please explain

I would suggest that they follow the rules. Similarly, if a US citizen were to desire citizenship into Canada, New Zealand, or Australia there are specific laws that we would follow in attempts to gain citizenship. Yes, we would have to jump through hoops and pay loads of money...but if that was our ultimate goal, we would do what was necessary to obtain it legally. If there was not a way to legally obtain it due to a country's restrictions...then we would be unable to proceed with our plan.

Indeed. Much respect to those who publicly stand for what they say. You know, it seems like undocumented migrants who passed a driver's test and bought insurance, would be more courageous than the people of the United States who decided to hide behind a faux name and spread messages of ignorance. But things like that, and drone strikes, are perhaps more suitable for an alternative thread.

Oh Keith, your true colors have emerged!!!

What colors are those? Red, White, and Blue? Should I be exclusively Red?

Keith, you are transparent.

What is it that you mean by "transparent."

Your political transparency lies in your belief that the laws of this nation vis-a-vis immigration are "unjust" based upon a person's level of wealth. You seem to feel that a poor person living in Mexico has a "right" to live in this country. Am I wrong? Do you think that life if fair?? Is life supposed to be fair?? Fairness... Who decides what fair is?? You?? Fair share?? Those that don't have need to be given by those that have so that it is fair?? Maybe there should be a mechanism to move the wealth from the haves to the have-nots so that everything is fair and equal. maybe every person's wealth, not "income" but wealth, should be measured and then redistributed so that those people with less wealth can have just as much. Maybe the whole world should be fair. What do you think Keith??

Excellent remarks, indeed! First, I'd like to note that you have not explained to me what you mean by "transparent." You must understand that in my ignorance,
I am unable to merely know what you mean, but require further explanation, not just an emotional bundle of questions thrown my way.

Now, to your questions. The priveleged do seem to have a foot in the door vis-a-vis the underpriveleged. That being said, the justice of the immigration system
lacks not merely because of one's economic situation, but social as well. So you're partially right, the poor are impacted greatly by the injustice of the system.

Do you know what it takes to obtain lawful residence here? Do you know how many years one would have to wait before obtaining legal access? Up to ten years or more,for some people, is what it takes. Forcing people into a situation where years of instability is the only alternative to finding some source of revenue for their
family is unjust when the method finding of revenue is considered illegal.

What I am saying is that:

People have the right to migrate to sustain their lives and the lives of their families.
A country has the right to regulate its borders and to control immigration.
A country must regulate its borders with justice and mercy.

Justice, or fairness, I use here as synonomous.

I think your extremism in thinking that in my saying those who have not enough to have a decent life should receive assistence and opportunity is a type of modernistic egalitarianism is unfounded.

So yes, redistribution of thinks necessary for living, is just. I'm not saying private property need be stripped away, nor all excess wealth, but there is a role for justice to play and we're not giving it her part.

Unfortunately for them, those people do not have the "right" to migrate across our border illegally to find what they are looking for. They don't, no matter how eloquently you can say they do (and you can, kudos) have that right, they just don't. period. You can wish it is so, but it's just not. There are rules in place. They break those rules. Someday those rules may change, and you will get your wish. You appear to have an extreme left view of the world. You may very well indeed bury us from within Keith...

That's an excellent point. Who gives them jobs? Why aren't we merely making it more difficult for employers to exploit undocumented migrants, while at the same time, making it easier to legally get into the country? Point of clarification - Hispanic is not a language.

Keith,
who gives them jobs? Americans do. Who picks them up at a 7-11 for construction jobs? Americans. Who eats entire meals for cheap because there are illegals working in restaurant kitchens? Americans. Who pays them to mow their lawn/watch their kids/clean their houses? Americans.
Let's not be hypocrites. Everyone benefits from having illegals, including the construction and hospitality industries.
Despiser, hispanic is not a language...

But Maria, explain to me how giving an illegal an Illinois issued Driver's License will help them or anyone else? What does an illegal "gain" by giving up their names and address?? What does an illegal "gain" by paying for insurance?? Help me out here! If I was here illegally, the last thing I would want to do is "bust" myself. Also wouldn't want to spend money that I didn't have to... What's up with this??

Despiser, Keith seems to think that just because we do not use our given names on this forum that our opinions are somehow less valid. People don't always feel "safe" in expressing unpopular views for fear of reprisal... I believe that the anonymity afforded by using a pseudonym allows for a greater freedom of speech and expression.

Things aren't always what they seem. "NotBuyingIt" isn't a person, is he? How do non-persons have opinions? Certainly there is a greater validity in the attribution of opinions when they are attributable to persons. However, I never said, "just because we do not use our given names on this forum that our opinions are somehow less valid," exactly. Do you know what a Scarecrow argument is?

Keith, Ha!! So what is your issue with a pseudonym then?? Scarecrow/Strawman?? I do know the term and I don't believe it fits this situation. As I've explained, the anonymity affords an unpopular opinion without fear of reprisal.

Mr. Taylor - I appreciate your having entered the dialogue. Many interesting points and insights are provided by your comments above. What I am interested in figuring out is how is it that these people were not already "American Citizens", especially those who have come from countries south of the border of the Untied States. Indeed, if they were born south of the border, they too are American citizens.
That aside, as a nation of laws we must realize that we are first and foremost a nation of persons. Laws are for the people, the people are not for the laws. You're certainly right in saying most of the migrants, especially from countries south of the United States, came here via a very difficult process.
As a person of strong Republican values, Mr. Taylor, I am sure you'd agree with me that we ought to support the public in embracing these values. Could we say that these values are life, family, and freedom? If so, I think that in supporting this bill we are supporting life, family, and freedom. We are supporting the flourishing of human life in that we make it more difficult for people who are merely trying to support a struggling family make it. Money is coming from their efforts, and it is directed towards the well-being of the lives in their household. The family is obviously protected in that, by not being detained and deported, they stay together. Freedom is upheld by the fact that, in purchasing insurance and claiming responsibility, damages aren't picked up by us.

so killing a baby up to term is okay with you?

RINO James Taylor... I thought you were too good to be true!!! "Fat Cats", "only good thing the Repubs have done is lose to Obama", Liars, take from the poor, let sick Americans die. YOU sir are the disgrace... Your silly attack on the Republican party is unwarranted and full of falsehoods. You have just turned into another Marcus Lewis.

Mr. Torre, so called "Illegals" do not exist. Can you show me an "illegal"? Is there an abstract form of "illegal"? I think what you might be trying to refer to are persons - real persons. That being said, these persons seem to have many rights (if you'd like to use that terminology). They have a right to breathe, to work to support their families, more importantly, to move to a place where they can find work in order to keep their families from starvation. Even citizens of the United States have a lack of rights. Citizenship isn't the end, it is a mere means.

Do those same folks have the right to follow the rules?? Do they get to pick and chose the rules that they want to follow? There are rules to follow to enter this country. Many people follow those rules and many do not. When these people play soccer, do they get to use their hands during the game, while others do not?? Why DON'T they have to follow the rules??? Because they are poor?? Because they want something they don't have?? Keith, are there any rules that these folks should have to follow??

Dear Mr(s). NotBuyingIt, people are only obliged to follow 'just' laws. Are religious institutions compelled to provide contraceptives, abortifacients, and sterilizations in their employee's "health" insurance - absolutely not. It is beyond them being poor, that they should be able to have work and live a decent life, it is because they are persons that they deserve every single basic necessity conducive to human life.

But who promised them this? Their government? God? You? Keith, you write, "It is beyond them being poor, that they should be able to have work and live a decent life, it is because they are persons that they deserve every single basic necessity conducive to human life." who defines decent? You? Have you seen the footage of the tribesmen in the Brazilian rain forests? Are they living a decent life? Or how about the nomadic tribes in Mongolia or East Africa, do they live decent lives? Not according to our standards, but how about to their own. Do you measure everyone's standard of living by your own?? Where do the North Koreans fit into your world Keith??

but...someone will have to read it for them then!

Have you asked any of them, Ms. Jen? Or are you making that decision here and now for them?

Mr. Torre, on the contrary, it seems you don't understand. How is it that you have deduced my position as "it's okay to break our laws." It really depends on the "law." No man would think it is unjust to not obey an unjust law, right?

Mr. Estrada, do you support an open border policy? And by that I mean anyone can come in any time they want.

I think an open border policy is unjust to the residents of the United States, especially while we are certainly vulnerable to many threats. However, closed versus open is a mere false dichotomy. There are middle options.

Ok that's a good answer. As it currently stands we have a system that allows for people to come her legally. There are also a lot of people who come here illegally, whether they overstay a visa, sneak across the border, or enter through some other illegal means. Under our current system of laws what do you think should be done with a person who has entered the United States illegally?

Mr. Huff, the law should allow for flexibility. A gentleperson who has come here in search of the actuality of destroying the United States, is different than the person who has come here (even if illegally) in search of keeping their family alive. Amnesty, to some, is an option. Fines are another option. The option of giving some an opportunity to get in line (on the paper work) in order to have at least legal residence is another. Another option is tightening up on businesses who exploit undocumented migrants.

Somethings that are not options include the tearing apart of families that are not doing harm.

We have room for disagreement on how we provide justice and mercy, there is no room on how to commit an injustice - we just don't, can't, do that.

Mr. Torre, no. There is an objective moral law. We must use our consciences to develop a position that works for everyone. I'm no relativist. Try again.

Thank you! Find me on facebook!

@Keith Michael, I second ufialum's comment. Your approach is using logic and reason -- and is well-thought-out. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Schnell!

I feel differently than you do Ted. Does that make you right and me wrong? I don't believe that Keith IS being logical or reasonable and I don't think that he has presented ANYTHING that is "well-thought-out"!! Please give me an example of what Keith has presented that is so "well-thought-out" if you don't mind.

Corrupt AND Bankrupt - think maybe they are related???

Check out the July 6, 2006 edition of the Christian Science Monitor!

That's not what I said. You are free to review what I said before pressing the "Submit" button. I can't love "illegal" - what is that? But indeed, I love all people - as should we all if we are to be persons of the highest potential.

Estrada is more of a Spanish name, not Mexican. As far as my kind, I'm mostly Native American. If I took the majority opinion of this forum - I'd ask you all to leave my country.

Vera, Vera, Vera. Are you out of your medication again? You may disagree with Mr. Estrada without attacking him because of his name.
You like to brag about your religious beliefs all over the patch using all your alias but can't see how it's not compatible with your constant racist rants.

Vera, is it?

Brian so sorry for the loss of your brother. Agree with you that other countries would never allow the kind of garbage that goes on in our country. They actually have laws that you must follow.

Despiser of Obama, Vera's back!

I think the circumstances are quite different. Why go to Mexico in the first place? Intention is one of the first things it boils down to, sir (or madam).

Here's a page called 'Things that are not in the US Constitution'
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html
You should read it sometime.

obama only got reelected because of all the illegal black and mexican trash ruining this once beautiful country, maybe you should go do some research on obama and his ancestry! You might be mildly surprised by what you find!

I agree with you Cristina . This guys. I think they never had a mom or dad to educated them. They are jealous of us because they see us progress get educated something that they could never get done. About history Indians Aztec , Mayas were here first . With no offense to any body white in migrate to this country and Spain brought the black to all countries of America .

We are already there thanks to Dodd-Frank and Elizabeth Warren now ensuring it gets enforced.

the thing is that these people are already driving on the road next to you and me, and they will continue to because there is no way for all illegal immigrants to be caught. At least with this everyone on the road is better protected.

Indefinite detention, drone strikes, the police state, unjust deportations, the death penalty: these too sound like terrorism.

Move then Keith. Police State? Move to China or Iran and see how you like their laws. America has the best laws on hand.

Mr. Estrada...'Indefinite' detention does not exists, as there is always an end. Drone strikes are a neccesary evil of war and often cause less casualties on both sides than hand to hand combat would. 'Unjust deportations'? If you are not here legally, you should be removed. Fairly simple as the laws exist. Whether or not you personally find them unjust is irrelevant. They are the current laws. And lastly, I am a staunch supporter of the death penalty. I am a Christian but firmly believe in being held accounatble for heinous acts.

Despiser of Obama and Lisa S. Thanks much for giving us a perfect example of a couple of typical brain dead American idiots.

"There kids?"

Eric Blair, I think you deserve a thank you as well!!!

There is a lot of truth here. There is also a lot of truth that there is infomercials running in Mexico that are running procedures to get entitlements when you come to the USA.
Maybe you can explain the current procedures and why are they so difficult. Are you also aware of the simple suggestions that have been made to clear up this matter. It is not stylish right now in this divisive era.

My great grandparents on both sides were LEGAL immigrants who had to apply for citizenship and wait in line. they came here, learned English, worked hard, took care of their own, and truly desired to blend into the culture.
Yes...these illegals are driving the streets anyway. Having a license is not going to make them any more aware that driving drunk or speeding are bad things. If they don;t have common sense, a license won't help. It also won't guarantee insurance- but it will guarantee more costs to the rest of us for bilingual driving instructors, testers, and Secreatry of State Personnele.
Life as we know it would not stop without 'these' people in our workforce. Thousands of jobless Americans would gladly take their positions. Yep...your 'hoity toity' white folks too. And the schools would breathe a sigh of relief for smaller class sizes and less strain on taxpayers having to pay for ELL teachers and programs (and those kids get a nice small class size...ironic isnt it?). Never mind how happy the hospitals would be.
And yes...there are illegals of many nationalities. They should ALL be sent back and apply to come to this country legally.
Remember the boats getting swamped in the movie Titanic? You're on one.

amen Lisa, I am very tired of paying for all this. Since we are a bit informed we are a minority.. The insure pool that spits us our rates is so true. I realize that I am in prison now due to attitudes, and I also realize that when I am in common areas such as stores I am only interested in being polite to our clerks. The other mutual customers
might have their hands in my pockets of what I have EARNED.

The classrooms are full because the schools can afford to hire more teachers. You're also disregarding the many that DO come here to learn the language and blend in -- as you say. The majority that I know, WANT to do things the right way. They WOULD get insurance if they only could. And why are you insinuating that "they" all drive drunk and speed? I worked for McD's for 24+ years. I always tried to hire "white" folks -- but they won't apply for the job. They aren't going to work for minimum wage. Ok, I get it? So pay the fast-food workers more? Right? Then, you wouldn't mind paying $13/value meal?
Jeri, to the best of my knowledge, those "infomercials" that you speak of is NOT true. The US gov't doesn't offer working VISA's. So how can they even attempt to come over legally? And yes, LIFE as we know it WOULD come to a stand-still. Rent the movie: A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN...

https://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/A_Day_Without_a_Mexican/70000495?locale=en-US&mqso=80030196&mkwid=sCBd7F4jS&gclid=CNet0qmjjrQCFcxAMgod6h0AvA

Great points, Diane. Except for the recommendation to watch "a day without a mexican." It is not a serious documentary with facts, it is only a stupid light comedy.

Most of us Gringos came thru Ellis Island legally. You supporting the illegals is just typical Mexican BS, Illegal is Illegal, deport them ASAP I'm tired of paying for Illegals with my tax dollars. Let Mexico deal with your people.

But how could you possibly keep all of them off the road? They're driving next to you and me out there, and as far as I know, IL police cannot check their immigration status and lock them up. So, I see granting them licenses as a practical step to deal with an issue that is here whether you like it or not.

What world are you living in? It's mandatory that you carry insurance? If so, how come so many people (legal & otherwise) are driving without insurance? How come they have plates on the car if it's mandatory? Someone in Sprinfield is not doing their job because you have to have proof of insurance to buy plates.

So many divers stations visits are now done through the mail. Try and visit one it is a joke. I even sent Jessie a certified letter of my experiences in Naperville. Never heard from anyone. Our rates are going up also. If they can not handle professionally what they have ...give them more responsibility????

Braze: I have an IL license without having an SS number 'cause I'm here on an accompanying spouse visa (hubby -also foreigner- has a job with a government agency). My license is only good until the expiration date on my visa. It's called a TDL (temporary license).

Maria, did you, or did you try to, or did you want to try to vote in the presidential election??

NotBuyingit: no, why would I try to vote in a country of which I'm not a citizen? I'm not sure I understand why you ask this question.
Reading the thread, it seems that some people think that if you get a license you automatically sign up to vote. That's absolutely not true.

Jeri....
I have been using the Naperville Secretary Of State license facility exclusively for over 12 years. During the last 8, the service at that facility has been super! When I get a plate sticker, I'm in and out of there in under 10 minutes with my best time being exactly 7! Last year I renewed my DL and was in and out of there in 22 minutes.

I'm old enough to remember when it took an hour or two minimum to get anything done in the IL SOS office. Under Ryan it was horrible! Under Dixon and Edgar it was worse! Back before photo ID, you could renew by mail and that was a cinch!

I got my licence under Paul "Shoe Box Full O Cash" Powell in 1968 so I am very familiar with how that office had been run before Jesse White. I actually voted for him and I am a staunch Republican Conservative!

Well, if this isn't irony at its best. An unintelligible post rife with grammatical errors that includes a mandate about "english". Hilarious!

have you also considered the benefits you get from them being here? Cheap strawberries 'cause they pick them, cheap childcare, cheap food 'cause they're cooking it? Let's not be hypocrites. Whole industries benefit from having them (construction, hospitality, etc).

But Maria, is it a NET benefit?? I mean, I will grant you your points on strawberries and construction, and childcare, but in the end are we in the black or the red?? Do we gain more than we spend?? I'm not sure that the numbers can be truly determined.

NotBuyingIt: I agree that numbers are impossible to determine. What I was trying to get at is that this issue is not so simple, and that most people commenting here as if they were so disconnected from this issue are really not. I think there's great danger in separating each other thinking of "us" as victims and others as criminals and that's it. -And as I write "us" I ask myself where do I belong in this issue...it's so complex!

maria, I think your confusion on which group to align yourself with is a different problem with the immigration issue. In my limited experience with immigrants from Mexico, I don't see them as being interested in becoming Americanized. They remain Mexicans living in Illinois. Am I wrong?

Because Mexico doesn't even want them.

That's the problem! Mexico is like Illinois and Rhode Island 10 times over! Being corrupt is a prerequisite to be in office! Every politician in Mexico owes somebody and owned by the drug cartels.

You need more cowbell!

Yes, I'm craving cowbell as well. We DO need more cowbell!!!

How is this going to make any illegal a better driver? Do you think that if they actually take a test and fail that they won't be driving anyway? Obviously, respect for the law is not a priority since they are not here LEGALLY.

Who should "throw the illegals out"? ICE. We already have an organization branch of government...in place, They are already staffed and paid. The immigration laws exist, and it boggles the mind that our present government seems to think it's Ok to just ignore them because they don't like them.

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with any legal immigrant from any country being here. What I cannot tolerate is the demise of America and constitutional law. And it is hurting this country financially at every level.

Thanks for that Lisa S. Well said.

Lisa, people that are without legal documentation are helping this county, as well. It isn't about making undocumented migrants better drivers.

WTH?? James, are you kidding me with that???

Is this the same James Taylor that wants to represent the 2nd Congressional District and you can't even figure out how to stop the Patch from coming to your emails!!!! God help us!!!

BlackHawks Fan, I agree completely!!! BTW, James Taylor has now begun trashing the Republican Party in his posts...

All you've got to do is call.

Your "handle" says a lot about your character. What do you stand for, if anything? Ridiculing people? Despising human beings?

They won't get the same driver's license if the legislation passes. It is temporary. Insurance is up to the insurance companies - they make more money keeping them in the same pool, probably. "Scads of illegals"? What are those? I'm sure you've broken the law at some point or another, that doesn't reduce you to a mere "criminal", does it?

Very well said Elizabeth!

Elizabeth tell the crap to the family of a border agent that was recently shot and killed like a dog , by scum illegals trying to cross the border and all the other border agents killed the same way protecting the border. If an illegal sneaks into the U.S. what are they hidding?

Very well put Elizabeth. But can you please outline how the law should be changed? Specifically regarding the border, how would you change the immigration laws of the United States?

Elizabeth, This is a thread on the proposal to give those that have chosen to break the laws of the United States and enter our nation illegally for their own self-enrichment, jumping ahead of others who are waiting patiently and following our rules, giving those lawbreakers a license to legally drive an automobile here in a state where they illegally reside. This is not a debate on immigration policy. Nothing good will come of this.

Thanks, Elizabeth! Cheers!

Mr. Despiser of Obama, I hope you understand the can of worms you are opening when you talk about deaths on the border... what about the thousands of lives of the immigrants lost (and please don't reply if you are going to say something like "that's what they get for crossing illegally"). EVERY life counts, whether it's white, black, brown, whatever--it just makes no sense to be killing each other over this sense of ethnocentrism and false regard for the law and fairness. One more thing, I'm still amazed at the username you chose, Despiser.. Despise, what a strong & negative sentiment--hate will take you no where good in life.

As for you Mr. NotBuyingit, this debate is on the proposal of dealing with the current situation of having unlicensed drivers on our roads. So you're right, we are not talking about immigration policy, but why then have you commented about the idea of "shipping them back"? That is irrelevant both to the question posted and when talking about state level policy.

Elizabeth,
I'm guessing you didn't see my question...
You said "change of unjust laws is necessary." Just wondering which laws you think are unjust and how you would change them.

Kristine, what news source was it? Not everything we see "on the news" is accurate, much less unbiased. And, I can't guess, & don't care where this "illegal" was from, does it matter? The term "illegal" when referring to a person, makes no sense to me, by the way, coming from a gramatically correct viewpoint. Finally, I am very happy that a person, ANYONE, can receive a FREE transplant, you know why? Because I love humans, no matter where they're from. And it hurts, when anyone in this world is suffering. You should re-read your posted comment, maybe you will find it at least a little bit disturbing the second time around. Where has our regard for life gone?

Nothing in life is "free"... We pay for it one way or another. It comes out of our pockets... everything comes out of our pockets. We work to make money to give it to someone else to make money, and in turn that money is given to others... We are all little pieces of the puzzle, players of the game. wish we all could follow the rules as they exist. don't like the rules? change 'em!! But until then, we oughta play by them... IMHO

Bunky I couldn't agree more. Also I kid you not with this incident I encountered a couple of summers ago while swimming in Lake Geneva in Wisconsin. A group of Hispanics some sporting gang tattoos were standing in the lake laughing and as I walked by , one idiot said "F" the Americans and what they think , we are here to stay and deserve what we get. I felt like taking the scums head and hold it under water for several seconds. I did however look at them and said "F" you get the hell out of here. As usual no gonades for any of them to say anything back.

Bunky, you hit the nail on head. I'm paying through the nose for car insurance, my taxes (especially school tax) are through the roof. I wonder how many of the children in school are legal, or if their parents are legal. Do the parents pay taxes? We, the legal citizens of what was a great country, are fed up.

Bunky, I get you, but at the same time I don't. The tension between races is mutual, yes. Enough damage has been done to create it--history shows it. But, to fix it, it starts with you and me. I make sure to live free from resentement and hate, respecting others, and understanding we are different. Do your part, let everyone do their part. In the end, you will have lived a more worthwhile life if you try.

By the way, when immigrants come into the country, they're not thinking about how much they like/dislike "white people." They are thinking, "I'm going to reunite with my family, I'm going to feed my children, etc." We create this notion that races don't like each other, but we have to put that behind us.

P.S. You need to meet some more interesting Hispanics--the ones you mention you have spoken to, do not define the rest.

Bunky, don't forget having to build more schools because the classes are overcrowded! Guess why the schools are overcrowded. With new schools come more teachers, janiitors, etc. & guess who pays for all this? And did you know that it is ILLEGAL to ask them if they are legal? It's time for a revolt.

they are a vote for those that hate Americans that believe in laws rules and making effort to support family.

More cow bells!!!

Obviously you're not a real estate expert. A tenant's share of the property tax is included in the rent.

I agree! I'm ready when ever needed!

Perhaps you should learn how to spell "militia" before you try to start one DoO.

They tried that in Michigan. Know what? You pay a few dollars and you too can obtain your 'legal address'. in any state from someone willing to help out. And your real name? If you are not illgela and have no documentation from the US you can be anyone. You also do not have to provide your employer.

As well, I seriously doubt you could enforce arresting illegals with a license and no insurance. You don;t need a car to have a license,

ok bob, they are born and raised to be deceptive. did you ever visit the DMV? They are a mess with what they have to manage. See their attitudes!!!

Republican Rep.Tom Cross supports this bill. I was shocked!

It is a pro-family bill, Lisa. Why wouldn't a republican support it?

My cousin was involved in a fender bender last year with an illegal, no insurance. The police took him away in handcuffs. Result? Her car was fixed by her insurance company & guess what? Her insurance increased! Don't know what happened to him. Probably out driving somewhere.

Kristine he just went through the mc donalds drive through

Kristine, if he or she was here without proper documentation he may have been deported. Unfortunate. With a license, he could have purchased insurance, or at least been held liable for not having it - ultimately resulting in compensation for your cousin.

What on earth are you talking about? Unity Junior High opened in 2002.

Jaciel, Explain to me how being issued a Drivers License would in any way shape or form, keep someone who lives here illegally from being pulled over. If they have been pulled over, then there must have been an infraction.

It's not about whether they are being pulled over or not. It is about giving them a path to getting insurance to pay for traffic collision's cost if it was there fault and in order to keep them from getting deported and tearing apart their family.

Just because they have insurance or the right to drive legally doesn't mean that they won't be deported. This might be the exact reason that this law was brought up for a vote in the first place. I think that very few illegals will come forward for fear of being deported. If you look at Arizona and Illinois we're heading down their path. As far as tearing families apart this is what happens when you break the laws whether that be stealing, killing or doing anything else illegal. For every action there is a reaction. Laws are in place for a reason, stand in line like everyone else did. The wheels of justice turn slowly but at least they turn.

And when they are pulled over for violating a law, will they produce their Driver's License to the officer? And at time will the officer then determine that this driver is not legally living in this country? And will the officer then inform ICE? Is it the duty of a police officer to inform ICE when said officer identifies this offender as an illegal immigrant??

What are your values?

Keith, DoO's values are stuck in the 1950s, back when smoking and beating your wife were socially acceptable and "child abuse" was called "discipline".

DoV, That's what you came up with?? Seriously?? sheesh...

DOV a parent can still discipline their children, w/o it being called child abuse. The State hasn't completely stripped a parent of those rights.

So you're advocating vigilantism?

Do us all a favor and just move in with your fantasy lover Sheriff Joe.

If he had insurance, your friend would have had the insurance of the driver who hit him pay for it (probably). That being said, if these people had licenses, they could certainly be held accountable for having insurance -something we can't do if they're not even allowed to drive legally.

But that wouldn't be an issue Keith if they were not illegally here, would it?

Now it seems we're getting to the rudiments. Why be here illegally?

My point exactly!! Why be here illegally?? I DO understand the motivation of those that break our laws to come here. I just don't feel that they are "entitled" to migrate (your word) across the border without regard for our law. Would I feel differently if I had family or friends in this situation? Probably. I believe that's why there are so many American citizens with Hispanic last names that side with those that have chosen to disregard our law, break it, and come into our nation to personally gain from our nation. Those on the other side of this issue find those of us on this side as morally deficient. Our hearts don't sufficiently bleed for those illegal immigrants. Maybe, but maybe we are the ones that would bend over backwards to help a family in need. Maybe we are very active in charity, and church. Maybe we perform service for the underprivileged. Just because we want the laws of our nation to be followed, does not make us deficient in loving our neighbor.

Indeed! Why be here illegally! The short answer is: because being here legally means putting the well-being of your loved ones at risk. Truly, you speak of feelings as a form of argumentation. Feelings are no foundation for arguing if they are not grounded in truth! Love is a constant growth. What makes you think migrants have no regard for the laws of this country? Different laws have been broken by different undocumented migrants. Some break the law per visa over-stays; others, by crossing without authorization. We haven’t established yet that these laws are ‘just’. If they are not ‘just’ what law is it that’s broken? While we each have our perspectives and experiences tying into our opinion, we must also see (as you have) that we must recognize that particular bias and seek to find the most objective position possible. Activity in Charity is beyond the laws of the secular world. Charity presupposes justice. If there is no justice, how can you expect love?

I do not believe that charity "necessarily" presupposes any sense of justice. many acts of charity occur selfishly, allowing a person feel good about themselves without regard to the charitable act itself.

Keith, LOVE happens. There are no preconditions in love.

I ask you Keith, Am I morally deficient for not wanting people to enter this country by not following the rules that are currently in place? Does my heart not sufficiently bleed for them?? Finally, I ask how you make those measurements and whose scale do you weigh me on??

This topic of illegals shouldnt even be discussed. Give them all 6 months to liquidate their possessions that they by the way shouldnt really be allowed to keep in the first place,then give them and their illegal kids of whom many will be part of some looneytune latin gang most likely, the bums rush back to taco paradise in mexico. I cant believe how much money these illegals are sucking our system dry of.

They give more and take less than the average documented person of the United States. Check out www.justiceforimmigrants.org for more info.

And with an organizational name like that, you want us to believe that they don't have a bias, and we can believe their data??

This whole time I don't think you've come to terms with the nature of law, Despiser of Obama.

Nature of law? Illegal means illegal, nothing more, nothing less.

You might be against things like universal education - but in many cases here, it may be a good thing. Do you know what a tau·tol·o·gy is?

Yes tau·tol·o·gy is need to drill it into illegal immigriants they are here illegally and don't deserve a license. Capisce

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! VERY nice Despiser!!!!

more cow bells! our turn out voting to combat all this bs was not as strong.....I hope you all voted and just did not sit idly by for all these folks that want....for no effort

This is no argument for or against a position - it is a mere outpouring of emotion (not necessarily grounded in truth).

You said it Jane. This is one of the biggest cat and mouse games I've seen so far. Reminds me of rounding up all the cattle and getting them into the pen before they pack them up and ship them off to the slaughter house.

How many people do they honestly think will come forward. As far as insurance that's a big joke. Half the people here legally can't get or afford insurance so tell me how in the world illegals will get insured. I'm sure the underwriters are doing back flips on this one. RIGHT!

Please ask them, and see. Feelings fluctuate.

You don't seem to make arguments for your positions. I saw above that you may have a religious belief. What is that, if I may ask?

3.5 billion arguments. On this topic , it's seperation of Church and State now. It's not about religion, but my opinoin and voice as a legal U.S. citizen.

Hyperboles do not substitute for arguments. I'm looking to inquire about your value system. Then I wish to see if you hold to those values consistently. At this point I am hypothesizing that you do not. Hopefully it will discredit your emotional appeals and help people to move on to the next post.

Keith, he believes the Catholic Church should go back to the Dark Ages and undo the reforms of Vatican II.

Certainly, then, he could sympathize with the great, Saint Basil, who wrote, "Care for the needy requires the expenditure of wealth: when all share alike, disbursing their possessions among themselves, they receive a small portion for their individual needs. Thus, those who love their neighbor as themselves posses nothing more than their neighbor; yet surely, you seem to have great possessions! How else can this be, but that you have preferred your own enjoyment to the consolation of the many? For the more you abound in wealth, the more you lack in love." Basil lived 330-379, long before Vatican II. I'm sure he would support this legislation, like the Illinois bishops do.

Keith Vatican two is just as firm in their teachings and beliefs as ever. Do you think Vatican two went liberal?

No! Vatican II was necessary. I think an important passage of the Vatican II documents for this thread is paragraph 27 in Gaudium et Spes: "Furthermore, whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where men are treated as mere tools for profit, rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others of their like are infamies indeed. They poison human society, but they do more harm to those who practice them than those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are supreme dishonor to the Creator."

Notice "deportations"?

Deportation is a Church's view, but not a sin so I can respectfully disagree to an extent.

Deportation is listed as an intrinsic evil. You are formally cooperating with intrinsic evil if deportation is an intrinsic evil. Therefore you are sinning.

Then do not use the term "deportation" to describe the administrative removal of those that are in a place by way of deceit and subterfuge...

anyone visit the DMV??? or just by mail??? Joke of a place with all the attitude one can muster up.

It is a matter of causality. Mere terminological differences make no gain.

My point exactly Keith!! Semantics!! You referenced the word "deportation" in a writing as evidence that the Church finds that action as an evil and therefore a sin. I contend that being removed from a place entered uninvited into by deceit, by subterfuge, by breaking of law, is not the same as deportation of one from his home. I submit that the spirit of that writing was about someone removed from his home/homeland/hometown and not as an administrative removal of an uninvited immigrant.

What is a lie, DoP?

It is not a Democrat vs Republican issue. Republican State Senator Christine Radogno was a co-sponsor of this bill. Just look at her website: http://www.senatorradogno.org/
They also had support from Jim Edgar. Just remember this when she comes up for re-election.

If you don't like Mexicans being here, you could stop eating, not need anything built, never eat out, never need a landscaper or snow plowed, not need a new roof, not need your trash hauled... etc. etc. and then they would all go home because there would be no work. In the meantime, if you need to eat, I suggest you give some thought to the food chain and understand what a vital role Mexican workers play in getting food to your plate. Be thankful and grateful, not hateful.

Mel, you make it sound like mexicans are doing us a favor by taking jobs that could be going to Americans and sending that money back to mexico so more mexicnas can come here and do the same. I am not thankful that I no longer have a driveway to plow or landscaping to do because without a job I had to sell my house and move into an apartment. I cook my own food, used to do it in my own kitchen, and no I don't need a mexican to help get it onto my plate. You obviously have no clue what you are spouting about, or you have plenty of relatives south of the border counting on you to convince people that we need illegal immigrants. The word illegal means just that, illegal. I have no problem with anyone who takes the proper steps to become an American citizen, but I do have a problem with our government catering to a bunch of people sneaking in like theives in the night to rob us of everything we have worked so hard for....

No sir, on the contrary. I hope your children know that they may have the obligation to not abide by a law that is unjust.

And you are the arbiter of justice? Your view of the world is the "correct" one?? Not everyone has the same philosophy of life and living as you do Keith, and I believe that you suffer from a bad case of self-righteousness. You indicate that the law that makes it illegal for a person to enter this country without permission is an unjust law. Again I ask you, is it a persons level of wealth, and perceived need, that gives them the moral right to break that law?? Who determines who is needy enough?? You Keith? Should there be a case by case determination of this need, or do we just open the border?? What about the North Koreans Keith?? Where do they fit into this equation??

then you carry their load. I carry my own and abide by the rules. with respect.

John, you're right, human is human. But by the same token legal is legal. Our country is struggling to support our own people and everyone elses. How about mexico stepping up and providing some incentive for thier own people to stay.

Picture this bob....you take a test on the constitution,hole a candle,say the pledge,and bam everything is ok now..Your a citizen....really? That just made it all better? Question Americans on how much they know on the Constitution,dates,people involved and most can not tell you shit..so people are allowed to live here by going through some little ceremony? That sounds kind of cultish does it not?....The government wants all of us to think that by this little ceremony it's all good...What really makes you legal or not in the eyes of Government is taxes..Trust me I used to be as ignorant as some of the people on here...Know what causes the most chaos in this world? ...mine ,yours,hers,his,theirs,...nothing is anyone's...We humans make up documents,papers and claim things..and let others suffer...you don't speak correctly so you can't live here and feed your family,live,and get treated for medical,you work harder for less money,you can't be here taking our jobs,..your culture is different that here,you can't be here,....really...I mean really ask yourself what makes a person legal in the U.S.and the answer will be Taxes..why did the government hit the job markets to "help control immigration" and not people's houses,while they were at the store,while being pulled over? They went straight to the jobs...to get people that were hired and not paying taxes or using others IDs.

At least half of the undocumented people do pay taxes, into social security accounts that are not their own. They pay taxes without ever being able to get the benefits later as other tax paying people do.

Libby hatred in what way. People are just voicing their concerns as legal American citizens about illegal immigration. As far as the license goes , it's no ones right to have one or even drive in Illinois,it's only a privelage.

Libby, did you really write, "There is a lot of hate on this forum and a lot of you crackers are terrible spellers, which make you look ignorant." Did you really use the derogatory term 'crackers'? That's not hateful (nor ignorant) at all is it? Jeez.

Crackers, are you serious. I've seen nothing written except illegals and immigrants. The words wet back, chink, polack etc...were never brought to this discussion once and then you came along and graced us with crackers. What a wonderful person you must be and hopefully you have no children to pass that garbage onto..

Maybe some of the illegals here should start showing some respect for this country. Start following the laws of this land and go through the process like so many have done already. You're not above the law.

I did a little more research on this matter and I'm finding that Illinois is heading in the same direction as Arizona. One might even say this is all a trap for a round up.

Libby i know for a fact that 2 posters on here are African Americans so cracker would not apply.

Is the extermination of Jews, which was legal, also mere law enforcement and not evil?

Extermination of Jews legal? Wow.

Cheers for inconsistency in the position of "Vera"!

Keith how is that? Extermination of Jews was not legal, but war crimes, hence murder.

Discussion of immigration policy and enforcement is one thing but there is a lot of hate in these comments, including your screen name, DoO.

It was legal for Nazi Germany.

So now we are Nazis Keith?? You have taken your argument to a ridiculous extreme.

We will continue to provide Afghanistan,Iraq and other countries with FREE Healthcare,Food,and weapons,some of these countries it will be for never ending support from the U.S. which our government agreed on.
Does anyone know why people do not want to go back to Mexico? Have any of you been paying attention to the war down there..I have a friend that lives right here on Gougor road that's from Mexico and he said in his town the Los Zetas have 2 people standing outside of every business and if you want work you have to go to them and ask..Do any of you know how dangerous it is to get a job from a ruthless gang? It is dangerous enough that people would rather risk being shot,die on a desert,lose family members along the way,risked being robbed,risk being a slave in the U.S.,risk comming here and being arrested,thrown into prison, risk being locked in a train car,left to die,abandoned,and all of this to not even know if their going to be alright when they get here...take a look at Cancun..the airport has armed Los Zetas at it right now...military,the police are not there.it is under the control of the Los Zetas...

Giving undocumented migrants an opportunity to have a temporary driver's license and purchase insurance is justice.

And, as they're not criminals, we should stop treating them as such. You're Catholic, right? Read: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/12/13/latino-bishops-us-should-stop-treating-undocumented-immigrants-as-criminals/

"Justice" as determined by you.

Fair enough..

Mecando, Republicans will continue to lose elections due to growing populations of historically democrat Hispanics and blacks. Republicans can only get the Hispanic vote if they abandon their principles and advocate for amnesty for illegal immigrants. I don't think anything less would be enough. Blacks will never vote republican in numbers large enough to make a difference. You have seen the numbers: Blacks for Obama, 93% and Hispanics at 71%... Repubs cant get sufficient numbers. There has been a shift in the views of Americans I believe. I honestly believe that Republicans follow the principle that JFK asked of us: "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." On the other hand, the party that is getting the votes, Dems, are giving the people what they cry for to stay in office!!! "What will you give me??" "whoever gives me more is who I will vote for!" I say, "ask not..."

Oh, and by the way mecando, I don't know if Ted Schnell is following your post, but that could be construed as a racist comment.

An attack on religious freedom also includes infringing upon a person's right and duty to serve migrants in need.

Illinois Secretary of State facilities are arranging a deal whereby Immigration & Customs Enforcement will be leasing office space in Drivers License facilities. As soon as the Illegals (I'm sorry, "un-documented Democrats) get their licenses, they are 'outprocessed' by ICE. Who says Illinois is not thinking out-of-the box!

Line up the busses!

Again Kristine, what's the difference between you and this "illegal"? I'm still not convinced by your argument. Did you read the part where I said we are ALL HUMANS, and that we should be happy at the news of anyone person being able to receive medical attention? I would understand your anger if, say for example in a given situation, your life was considered less important than an animal's... but another human? Why has our society turned people against people? It doesn't matter where we are from, where we were born, when it comes to life. Let me tell you something, I also do not receive free medical care, but I'm not angry at someone who does. Direct your anger in the right direction, turn it into something positive and proactive. Blaming others for your misfortunes will not fix the situation you are in, it might make you feel a little better, but in the end, will not change anything.

Mr. Despiser, how can someone possibly EARN a kidney transplant?? Have you built enough points across your life, so that if you were in a medical situation, you can say you have earned a transplant? What can I do to earn one too, I'd love to hear? Maybe you should try to earn a new heart.

Or a brain!!!

Who said anything about taxes? I was talking about medical costs. Would you like to see the bill my husband received for his stay in the hospital? Over $100,000! I don't care that he was brought here as a baby. Why doesn't he have medical insurance? Maybe then, the legal citizens wouldn't be paying so much for insurance. The illegals are a drain on our economy, don't you understand that? On TV it didn't say anything about his applying for a grant, it said he would get his prescriptions FREE for a year. My husand's prescriiptions ran us over $1,000 a month!
I wish Loyola would have donated their services for my husband's care.

It is very heart-warming that this man received this kidney transplant. No person should have to suffer, or face death, because they can't affort treatment. Unfortunately, our great country hasn't figured out a way to administer programs for those in need without corruption, waste, laziness, and mismanagement tarnishing the wonderful THEORETICAL foundation that these programs were developed upon. You can't squeeze water out of a rock. Most of these programs look, sound, and feel fantastic and "warm and fuzzy" on paper. However, in the harsh light of reality, the execution and results never live up to the vision. And millions upon billions upon trillions of dollars are down the drain. I wish all the voters who put Obama in office would start standing up and demanding that he put an end to the waste, corruption and greed that puts all of the "good" entitlement programs on the road to failure!!! This is the message we need to be sending all of our politicians!

Libby, what's wrong with us is that we are Capitalists and you are a Socialist. (Libby is short for 'Liberal', right?) Capitlism works, and built this country for 200 years. Socialism doesn't work, and we are trying to save the country from you bleeding hearts who have no clue about economics or the law of un-intended consequences.

Even private hospitals get public funding. So that donation is hitting everyone's pocketbooks in some sense. But I do think life and death is a little different than drivers licenses. We're a little off topic here.

Vera, You're rich and live in a big house in Naperville and you're charitable, so help out your struggling parents. It's the Christian thing to do.

Stones, he belongs to the party that believes a "hand up" is a "handout".

Despiser of Vera, Which party pray-tell is that?? Your party?? I am a republican DoV, specifically what are you talking about that is a "hand-up" that republicans consider a hand out?? I have to assume that you mean republicans as this is a common theme from dems... You've won your election. Maybe you should ease up on the divisive rhetoric you (individually and collectively) cast upon us. You can stop demonizing us. Do you think that we will be able to work together for the common good all the while casting aspersions on us?? I mean seriously DoV!!!

NotBuyingIt, Despiser of Vera is really taking a shot at Vera, AKA Despiser of Obama. How do you tone down the rhetoric when Vera uses a moniker like that? If you take a look at all what all of those comments are, you'll see what we mean.

Yes, the election is over. Hopefully some good will come of it all and Washington gets the message we want them to cooperate with each other. The unemployment numbers improved for the second straight month and if we can avoid this "fiscal cliff", maybe better times ahead for all.

Stones my 6 brothers ,sister and I do take care of our parents with their bills and other payments , as caring children should do , but we also shouldn't be paying for 12 million illegal immigriants tab either. If want to take care of them start cutting checks and give them hand outs. I sure won't .

Kristine here's another one, my Cousin a drinker, smoker and unemployed and no insurance has a dilated Aorta which will need repair or he can die. He's been turned away from a few hospitals , because of no insurance and the surgery is very expensive. Also he's denied Social Security disability because the Government said he doesn't qualify since with the surgery he can still work. What a crock!. If it was an illegal, guess what? Carte Blanche! Isn't America great? Hell no!

The fact the others are given mercy and some are not should not compel us to keep others from receiving it, but instead, we should be seeking to spread it!

You can marry a US citizen, give a million dollars to a US company, or be very well educated and have an American business say that you are the only one for a particular job.
Even to get a business visa you must prove that you have a family and house in Mexico and have no motivation to move to the US. I have heard of families requesting visas to come visit disneyland and everyone but the mom gets one.
Since there is no way for 98% of Mexican citizens to get a visa to come here legally and since the US is clearly a better place to live and very close (requiring only a life threatening multi-day desert hike with no food or water to get here). A lot of people risk it for a chance at a better life.
Do these people threaten the American economy? I don't believe so. How many small businesses run by Americans depend on illegal immigrant labor to stay in business? How many people can afford home cleaning or lawn care, or home improvement projects because there is an illegal immigrant there to do it?
If the visa process was reformed to provide temporary work visas with conditions for good behavior and learning English, this "illegal" problem would be vastly reduced.

MM, you are attempting (unsuccessfully) to justify violating Federal law based on 'need' or 'want'. Mexicans (your pick of nationality) need or want a better life than they have in Mexico, so it's OK to break the law and come to the USA illegally. Based on your logic, it would be OK for a poor, hungry guy to rob a bank, because he needs/wants some money. And then there's always the one where the guy breaks in to my house and robs me, but it's OK because he washed the dishes and vacuumed the rugs while he was there. And, yes, the illegals DO threaten the U S economy, so you are incorrect on that, too.

Ernie,
I think that there is a pretty clear difference between robbery and an immigration violation, which is actually the point of my entire post. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's immoral.
How about if you leave your gate open on your property and then some guy comes in looking for work (because his friend did it last year) and you're like, you're here, how about I pay you to mow my lawn and clean my dishes? Then your wife comes home and kicks him out for being there illegally. Was he immoral for entering your property, even though it was illegal?
This would be much better parallel to the actual immigration situation. We have blocks to immigration that are not well enforced and very randomly decided and then reward those who subvert the law with jobs and then hate them for doing it.
Your very brief statement about economics is a much more logical argument to pursue, but you offered no reason for your opinion on the matter.

showing an ID when you vote should be something that we all agree on. It won't disenfranchise anyone.

Amen conservative!!

Vera, i think the phrase you'relooking for is "bleeding heart liberal", just sayin'......

You know, Vera, lots of Latinos are Catholic. Aren't you supposed to love them?