Agreed

Take your donations to Respond Now (or any other local organization) for those who NEED assistance. Not those whose union has them picketing a company that still hires AMERICAN workers.

Why can't we be supportive of those who are standing up for their rights....? GET UP STAND UP....STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS AMERICA....! We fund and pay for everything in this house ....OUR HOUSE....THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA...!

I'm with Ivent on this. How about you do both: Take your donations to RESPOND NOW and take them to the addresses mentioned above for those fighting for their rights. If you have a decent paying job or if you are in some in other way financially able, if you are not striking for a darn good reason (like the CAT folks are), then surely you have an extra can of soup for to take to the donation site. Geezus Mary & Joseph. Have a heart, people.

Well said

A couple of things, first they are having a hard time finding replacements. They are actually flying people in (paying for food, airplane fair, lodging & transportation to work in the Joliet plant, because people are NOT lining up to work there. The pay scale & benefits package we HAD was pretty decent, but now Cat wants to cut benefits, increase by more than 2 1/2 times healthcare costs, freeze pay, freeze pensions, take away lump sum bonuses we received in the last contract, take away seniority rights, encourage favoritism, all for the next 6 years. All while they are making record profits. The CEO got a 42% increase in salary last year, & with his bonuses actually received 60% more in pay than the previous year, Now I don't have a problem with that, if Cat thinks he's worth it, then more power to him! What I don't like is when he makes all this money & then decides he wants to take some of mine too. I have worked hard for 17 years to get to where I was before the strike. I worked overtime when they needed it, I volunteered to help out however I could, I did the absolute best I could do at whatever job they assigned me. Now they want a provision that would give my supervisor the right to loan me out to wherever doing whatever for as long as he wants on whatever shift for any reason, even if it's because he wants to give his nephew my good day shift job! Is that fair? Is that right? On top if the financial stuff that's just too much!

CC if you are looking for sympathy, you will find it in the dictionary between $h!t and syphillis. The reason you are getting little here is that the "terrible" world you describe is one the rest of us have been living in and making do with for years if not decades. Most of us have never had pensions, we save for our own retirements with 401ks - maybe a match if we are lucky. Pay the majority of our health care premiums, deductibles rising,pay raises sporadically -- many have had pay cuts. In a small business especially you do whatever your employer asks -- no work rules or set hours. Seniority? What's that? Favoritism - yes, this is planet earth. In this world the best assignments go to the best workers. Boo Hoo.

A NATION DIVIDED CANNOT STAND.....! I SUPPORT UNIONS....AND THE WORKERS RIGHT TO STRIKE IF THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT BEING COMPENSATED CORRECTLY FOR THEIR LABOR. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE OTHERS.....? WE WERE INTENDED TO BE FREE AND INDEPENDENT ....NOT SLAVES TO WHAT YOU THINK.

So they are out of work by choice, they need to work for a living like every other employee, and we don't know the total compensation package but I think it is safe to say it is above the $32K that the average American family makes. Also, the company is really people that own the stock of CAT, many of which are retirees. Their total return per share this year is about $9. So if you were lucky enough to buy 100 shares for $7,783 you would be receiving $184 in dividends and might have an increase in stock price but there is no gaurantee. But I am getting away from the real point. I am a firm believer that people should get paid what they are worth, and I believe that it is impossible to say that every worker in a specific job is worth the same pay. How can you say that a person who takes 40 hours to do a job should be paid the same as someone who does the same job in 25 hours. They just are not worth the same, but in collective bargaining they are paid the same. Lastly, what is with the threat of "Bringing their guns? violence?". Is this the way to teach those children you never see? It is statements like this that give unions a bad rap. If the picture you want in peoples minds is that if your union doesn't get what they want they are going to shoot a couple people, or that anyone that crosses the union line needs to die then most unions have fulfilled their mission. But then what makes the union anything more than a gang, and should they be treated as such?

Look, like it or not, the reality of a global economy is that unskilled and semi-skilled factory workers can be found literally everywhere in the world, and millions of them will do the work for a dollar an hour -- or less. They way most of us in the world "protest" our inadequate pay, or respect, or unpleasant working conditions, is to FIND A BETTER JOB. If you lack the skill set to get better pay and benefits in the open market, then how can you say you have a "right" to better pay from your employer when you haven't increased your skill set or value to them? You are right to say that people need to "wake up" to what is happening: the days of a well paying factory job in the US are almost over. The U.S. is a post-industrial service economy. Get a new skill set, or if you insist on factory work, start learning to speak Hindu or Chinese.

John, you got it absolutely right. If you are put into a situation that your only recourse is to strike, not to get more but simply to keep the benefits and standard of living that you worked for years to gain, you have a moral imperative to strike. The only other option is to bow your head in shame and show up to work.

These stupid suggestions about finding another job and give up what you have earned and worked for are beyond belief. There is less then four million jobs for nearly fifteen million people out of work. Find another job? Duh!

Everyone who is sentient knows how companies are taking advantage of our economic situation. People taking work home and working overtime for no additional pay. No raises for years. Departments understaffed and overworked are the norm now. And the reason companies get away with it is because of the lack of jobs available. People just can't quit and find another job. And anyone believing they can are living in a parallel universe.

One other question is, if you are on strike and are not paid by the company or unemployment, what is the opportunity cost of the strike? I would calculate is this way. You expect to be off for 3 months on strike and on a 50 hour week that you exclaim you would work and if you made only $20 not including benefits you are giving up $14,300. And if you count benefits of $8 per hour you are also loosing $4,160. So the opportunity cost to get a 3% raise is $18,460. Now if you do get your 3% ( or $.60 per hour ) raise it will take you 30,766 hours to make back what you lost. Please explain to me how going on strike is better for you? And if you make more than $20 per hour, the cost is even higher.

Hey David you missed my point totally...I would rather have people stand and strike than ever to use violence cause no body wins. No threat. Was asking a question. Who do people want people to stand...? People are violent in nature. Think not let some one mess with your kid and see what you do. I am making a statement of non violence if you read it correctly....having a strike is justifiable.violencs is not. I said it because people were bashing the strikers.

Also a strike is not always good for you but at least you took a stand. Everything is going up. With out fighting for a deal then you have to accept what ever is thrown your way. And when a company does not allow you to fight for your pay then when they decide to lower your pay,take away your benefits then we are headed in the wrong direction. I know companies out there that selected the highest paid premium insurance that had to be offered to employees when the employee says the payment is too high e company is off the hook because they offered the insurance and you did not accept it even though it would of cost you 1,300 a month....Do I agree with all strikes no but I do believe if the workers want to stand up for themselves then a strike is better than anything...yeah sure you can get someone to do something is 25 hrs instead of 40 but what happens when that worker gets older? And can not do it in 25 hrs any more? Do you fire them? Shuffle them? Lay them off?....cause in the end this man is going to strike and stand up for him self....let me as what benefits do these people that came in temporarily get? The company does not have to pay any benefits cause they are temporary workers under no contract. When a company wants to do this and not provide what should be provided for them then it is time to make a stand...Let me ask ho pw do people like working for a temp service paying $2 an hour to that temp service? That's more than union dues..

And about my comments making unions look bad.lol I am what you call a realist bud...let me explain....You have a job,then your contract is up,then your have to strike,then other workers come in for less pay,no benefits and take away every thing people have faught for over the years, now your hungry,bills are due,families insurance is comming to and end,birthdays,holidays,all with no money= bad decisions,stress,suicidal thoughts,people start being drunks because things are bad,families struggle and get tore apart,.....see all the stuff that goes one at home no one thinks about. Yes standing there and striking is way better than taking these thought and feelings and putting the into action....I don't mind if they strike....People need to remember the History of working in the U.S. people died,struggled,lost families to get the work rights we have today..Try to remeber where these workers are comming from...This is not Cats fault it is the Governments regulations that make Cat and workers act the way ther are...but with no regulations you will be working 50 hrs a week no over time..Remember people faught for your right to have 8 hrs work 8 hours family 8 hrs sleep.... That's 24 hrs in a day...They had to literally fight for it...not something I want to see happen nor do I want my kids to go through it..It is a battle already faught...

Here is my point..let's say everyone that commented on my comment worked for cat..let's say your getting paid,benefits are ok being taken care of.Then the company comes to you and says well your pay is in jeopardy,benefits yeah we need to talk about taking some away.are you going to stand there with a smile and agree,you say find another job well reality of that is most jobs you do not get your first check until 2 weeks after you start work,you still need gas money,food money,where you going to get it. Borrow it.then you have to pay it back and right back into the same situation.Or are You going to stand up for your self? Just finding another job is not as easy,not knowing what your going to get paid,not knowing where your going to get money for the next 2 weeks when all of your bills are due.You going to just walk away and let other workers take a job that paid 20 an hour now pay 15 and hour then when they want because they have temporary workers they can find some reason to get rid of them one by one and bring in new temporary workers for 10 an hour next thing you know thoes are replaced with minimum wage workers.see how that works.all a shift leader has to do when your a temp is say you did not listen to them..I seen it a hundred times..and the worker did nothing. Then the company tells some other temp service worker to fire the guy.with no argument no contract to go by.

Good morning,

I have nothing against striking, everyone has a right to protest wether they are in a union or not. My points that i think i am getting across but will restate is that: 1. people who own stock in a business have the right to a profit. 2. Workers need to weigh out if striking is the best thing for them. Loosing thousands of dollars in pay for hundreds of dollars in return might not be the smartest move. 3. It is a corporation presidents responsibility to his stockholders to reduce costs and increase profit. 4. If your main cost is labor and labor is substantially cheaper somewhere else and the quality of work done is esentially the same, as a business owner you should look at the cheaper labor.

Some new ideas come to mind as well: If it is a union job the temps are doing, don't they also have to be union and wouldn't they be on the same pay scale so they should actually cost more? If they are union guys working for the temporary agent, wouldn't the agent need to be union or should all the union people working for the temp agency give up their membership? If the job is so skilled that only a union person could do it, and all the union people are striking at all the companies locations, how are they still in business making money?

On your comment on no money = people getting drunk, suicidal, etc. If they have no money why are they spending money on alcohol. Also, if they didn't loose at least $18,000 because of the strike they would have money.

The unrealistic demands of unions has been sited as justification for companies who are moving our jobs to China, Mexico, etc...

Now if you have a truly bad situation, great. Are you being paid minimum wage after years on the job? Unions served a much needed purpose at one time---now I think they do more damage to their members than good.

That is the threat.....break up the unions or we will send your livelihood overseas....That is tyranny...There is a storm brewing.

Unrealistic demands? Do you pay bills or buy food? Costs of everything are fraudulently rising to force US to pay for a quadrillion dollars in bankster fraud.

Out of work by choice.....? These people are fighting for their survival in this screwed up economic mess created and allowed by the traitors from within....the politicians.

AKA.....Spreading OUR WEALTH around the globe.

Amen, Mom

Agreed.....why isn't the union helping their own people? Save the food drives for people that really need it!

Everybody pays for fraud except the greedy jerks at the top.

if you have a mortgage, you are not paying 33% in taxes.

You are taking an interest deduction on that interest payment. That's money you aren't paying in taxes based on your income, the definition of a deduction. THAT'S where the money goes - $100 Billion every year. In the 2011 fiscal year, $76.7 billion in food stamps were distributed. I'm sure you don't have a problem with being part of a program that costs more than $23 billion more than food stamps, do you?

Swing and a miss, mom.

No you are not paying 33% in mortgage interest.....you are paying 100%....USURY....It is all going right in the banksters pockets....and their criminal friends pockets....and guess what else .......? They never pay back the ORIGINAL LOAN....THEY TOOK OUT FROM THE TREASURY WHEN THEY CASHED THOSE NOTES WE SIGNED......THEY ROBBED US.....AND THEY STILL ARE..! Every dime you pay them is going to our foreign enemies who robbed US and the traitor politicians like ROMNEY...........that's right......every dime.....! Ask them for a General Accounting Ledger.......they don't have it......! They have no idea
how much THEY OWE......BECAUSE THEY OVERSOLD EACH MORTGAGE AND NOTES HUNDREDS OF TIMES PER MORTGAGE AND NOTE......! THEY DISHONORED US....! AND THEY OWE SOO MUCH $$$$$$....AN EST. QUADRILLION DOLLARS.......THEY ARENT PAYING ANYBODY....! THEY AND THEIR INVESTORS JUST KEEP RECYCLING AND GAMBLING ON THE SAME FRAUD.....AND POCKETING OUR PAYMENTS......OR....THEY CASH IN THEIR CREDIT DEFAULT INSURANCE WHEN YOU CANT PAY ANYMORE BECAUSE THEIR MORTGAGE DEBT IS INSOLVENT.....! THEY GET LIKE 10 TIMES THE VALUE OF THE OUR PROPERTY FROM AIG........!
PROPERTY.....AND THE PROPERTY....AND THEY NEVER LENT US A DIME....! NICE HUH...?

THE FEDERAL RESERVE.....IS A RACKETEER INFLUENCED CORRUPT ORGANIZATION.....

My reply would be to Tim,

33% is an easy tax level to reach when you own a business, especially when you are self employed.
Of every $ of profit in 2011 the self employed person will pay self-employment tax of 13.3% before income taxes are calculated. Assuming they make $100,000 in profit and have a house in New Lenox with real estate taxes of $7,000, interest on a house of $8,000 and state estimated tax payments of $5,000 they will be able to write off in itemized deductions of $20,000, a personal exemption of $3,700, and some social security tax of $6,200 leaving taxable income of $70,100.00. The Federal income taxes on this are $13,656 from the IRS grid. The self employment taxes would be $13,300. And the state income taxes on this are $4,250. Making the total taxes $31,206.

Guess that is pretty close to 33% in just income and self employment taxes.
To use your saying, swing and a miss Tim!

Interesting article....The Popes Banks in America... http://theunhivedmind.com/wordpress/?p=18814

The problem is the INTERNATIONAL BANKERS and the CORRUPT POLITICIANS in all political parties...The only person who ever took on Wall Street....in particular...AIG was Eliot Spitzer. He subpoenaed docs from the banksters....all subpoened docs went down in building 7 on 9/11.

This shows your lack of understanding of economics JJR. You are standing in front of a freight train, congratulating yourself for yelling "stop" at the train more loudly than the non-union "sheep". That won't stop you all from being run over by the Globalization Express. The law of supply and demand dictates that when there is a large supply of something (here, unskilled laborers in the US) relative to the demand for unskilled laborers (almost nil) then its price (i.e. wages) will go down. The sheep are those who let their union reps do the talking for them. The only way out of the cycle is for an individual to acquire new skills relevant to the 21st century US economy. The free market doesn't give a rat's ass about the need for a "strong american middle class:" If you have no more skills than some Chinese peasant than you won't earn any more money than them. Cat and Apple and GM will simply sell their goods in China. Jump out of the way of that train --A true patriot is out there improving his or skills - or starting his or her own business, so that our workforce is better than that of other nations.
Now, a comprehensive industrial policy in this national might restore some of those factory jobs, but are you gonna sit on your ass and hope the jobs come back 10 or 20 years from now? Really? Well, be my guest....

Yes, the traitors will allow them to confiscate and sell off our assets like we are chattle if we allow it.

Sorry, I would rather manage my own labor. They do a poor job and steal all of your wealth and in return they try to serve you up a steaming hot platter communism. No thanks.

More good factory jobs...? How about the banksters pay US back for the ORIGINATION FRAUD and the USURY FRAUD they owe US....? Then we won't need their lousy factory jobs and we could all become SELF EMPLOYED.....YOU KNOW.....THE AMERICAN DREAM....FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE ....IS FREEDOM. NOT FACTORY JOBS.

THE U.S. IS MIRED IN $1.2 QUADRILLION DOLLARS OF FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED BANKSTER DEBT FRAUD .......THAT MEANS AMERICA IS NOT FREE...! WE HAVE BEEN FORCED INTO WORLD BANK SLAVERY....! THESE CROOKS HAVE QUINTILLIONS IN ILL GOTTEN HIDDEN IN OVERSEAS BANKSTER ACCOUNTS....MAKE THEM PAY US BACK..! OR WE WILL ALL WAKE UP BROKE AND HOMELESS IN THE LAND OUR FATHERS CONQUERED UNDER COMMUNIST RULE...!

I don't think people here are asking for the government to come in and close down the unions, I think they are saying that individuals need to get paid for what they do based on the laws of ecomonics. If you go to buy a gallon of milk and Jewel in town wants $7 for a gallon of milk and Walgreens across the street wants $3 for the same gallon where are you going to go? My guess is that you would go to Walgreens. If a company can build a tractor in Illinois for $30 per hour or $17.50 per hour in Indiana where do you think they should build it.

Im not sure how you got to response from my post. My point was that these people can very we be standing up to an employer who is taking advantage of them. Just as employers did prior to unions... its a slippery slope when you start limiting certain rights like walker did with the state employees... he has now opened a dangerous door... he used peoples hard times and struggles to get his agenda done... and agenda that will produce little results for the people can but huge gains for his donors. Your milk anaolgy is perfect... now plug that into a company that now can break a union and hire people at balf the wage...

Unfortunately Chronicles of Bob...WE THE PEOPLE are their sacrifice. That is, if we allow it. These people worship false idols and other weird stuff.

As a matter of economics what Scott Walker did was not controversial: most of the arguments in favor of allowing unions and collective bargaining in the private sector do not exist in government work. In private business companies always have an incentive to lower their costs and keep wages and benefits as low as possible. Company managers are not accountable to the public. In the public sector, their is no private competition -- government is basically a monopoly -- and government leaders who ultimately set wages, benefits and working conditions are answerable to voters: A generation ago even the most "progressive" leaders -- like FDR -- realized that public sector union was an oxymoron:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/18/the-first-blow-against-public-employees/fdr-warned-us-about-public-sector-unions

Does the job fair have union jobs. If not you will not find the CAT people described in this article there.

Who doesn't?

Hey dude, write your own blog. All are welcome at t he Patch Why would you complain about something you read when u know darn well you could present your own "op Ed." Wuss.

Their obvious agenda could be, they don't want to be treated like slaves.

You totally misunderstood my comments.

OMG....That's scary.

JJR...Fair wages aren't scary. When you said you have no idea what I'm talking about. That's scary.

Who?

The Patch is doing a great job of raising public awareness about a lot of things. Thank You...!

David H.........The people cannot survive this economy on crappy pay. I blame the Politicians and their cronies in the world of finance.....the money changers. If unions can help protect that, we need more of that. We need more unions and less ten buck an hour CORPORATE jobs with the funny hats. We were hijacked and robbed by Das Kapitalists and the robbers are running a dictatorship in this country. Time to UNIFY and STAND UP for OUR RIGHTS....

You better hope that never happens. The progressive meme of moving forward is causing regression. Everything good that we have accomplished is being thrown out the window because of greed at the top.

Union wage scales are outlandish.

Oh now lets not be hasty, isn't everyone who holds a sign in a construction site worth $120,000 per year. That is just fair isn't it.

Hell...$120,000.00 is extremely modest pay compared to the Wall Street gang who DO NOTHING but.... hang around computer screens all day gambling with OUR MONEY.....and losing it......AND HANDING US THE BILL....... Geez......don't we ALL wish we could have an ALGORITHM to GAMBLE ON ......with THE MONEYED ELITES WEALTH......? AND WE COULD ALL GET NOT JUST RICH BUT.... FILTHY WITH USING THEM AND THEIR WEALTH......AND HAND WALL STREET BACK OUR LOSSES.......!

well said lvent

Thank You Russ.

Just to understand you think $120,000 per year is the right amount to pay a person for holding a sign. Also, how much should wait staff be paid in a fair world or housekeepers? I am just really curious.

As for the pitty party on wallstreet, I think that if they did something illegal they should be fined, jailed, barred, etc. Just because they made alot of money, does that automatically give everyone else a free pass?

Lastly, does everything come down to class warfare? Since everyone has a different definition of rich and filthy rich, what is your definition of each? And do they owe you anything because they are your definition of rich?

David H..and you "think" Wall Street should have received an ongoing bailout of countless trillions in our wealth after they robbed us?

If the politicians were not so corrupt and the trillions were given to the American people who were ROBBED... instead of the criminal banks and their minions overseas, there would be no poverty in this country...NONE. http://4closurefraud.org/

Ivent, nice try in putting words in my mouth but I don't think so.

Did I mention anywhere in my comments that I " "think" Wall Street should have received an ongoing bailout of countless trillions in our wealth after they robbed us". I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't think anyone should get a government bail out with income tax dollars that only 50% of America actually pays. Not the banks, not the auto industry, not the insurance industry, not the homeowners, noone. I think that my tax dollars should not pay for charity either foreign or domestic. I think that if I wanted to give money to charity it should be at my discression. I think when someone does not pay any income tax they should not be able to tell me what we should do with the tax money collected because it is not their's. These are some of the things I think. That way when you are quoting me at least you will have a actual starting point.

Wow I guess I vent too. (please do not take the above writing and state that Ivent said it)

Believe me, there are many needy people right now on strike from Caterpillar. Regardless of what you think about the strike, is it right for the kids to do without? Not to have school supplies or snacks for lunch? For babies not to have clean diapers? Etc. etc. As a union worker at Cat, it's a sad situation if it comes down to betraying your brothers & sisters in order to feed your family. We are standing up for what we believe is right, and by crossing that picket line for a check we are cutting the throats of those who are standing strong out there. In order for a shot at a fair contract, we must be unified in our fight. It certainly helps tremendously if you know you will have food and other necessities for your family.

I didn't realize section 8 was only for the people of color.

Yes david because we all know that if unions were still all white male organizations like they were in the beginning we'd still be e having this conversation...
Im sure mom was referring to white people when she bashes sect 8 and food stamps.

If the Globalists have their way and the continue robbing all of US....We will all be broke and homeless in the land our fathers conquered...The founding fathers warned us we should never allow the politicians to weaken our U.S.C.....OR ALLOW THE BANKS TO CONTROL THE ISSUANCE OF OUR CURRENCY......If the traitors and their criminal friends overseas have their way we will ALL be renting our own homes....or worse....section 8 housing, food stamp recipients.

I'm not sure what color the people were in Mom's 1 comment regarding section 8 and food stamps. She didn't state any and CoB i was the first and only person to bring this to the table.

It does sound like you might have an axe to grind with people bringing up section 8 and food stamps. My understanding is that both programs are available to all races not just one race.

As for unions, they are available to all, it is just hard getting in when there are no jobs available and 30 - 40% unemployment in the unions themselves.

Bob don't forget your white pointy hat with the cut out eye holes when you go out later.

FED UP...is funny. I love people who get it. We are gaining momentum.

There are no unskilled union workers and the private sector union worker is not strangling our economy. Reduce the size of goverment, lower taxes and reduce regulations... and mostly get out of the way. This will increase company profits and create jobs that will pay a living wage, with benefits. Made in America by union workers... we need more of this, not less.

How are you defining unskilled JH?
I like wikipedia's example, "While most (if not all) jobs require some level of skill, "skilled workers" bring some degree of expertise to the performance of a given job. For example, a factory worker who inspects new televisions for whether they turn on or off can fulfil this job with little or no knowledge of the inner workings of televisions. However, someone who repairs televisions would be considered a skilled worker, since such a person would possess the knowledge to be able to identify and correct problems with a television.". By their example, some union workers probably are unskilled and some are skilled.
What is a living wage? According to some, minimum wage is a living wage. For others making more than the national average (around $16 per hour) is a living wage. Since I do not know what scale is in this union, do you think they make more than the national average? I know plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, tile setters, and laborers moke almost 3X the national average without benefits. Is 3X the national average a living wage or are they still underpaid? If we count in benefits the would be at 5X the national average. Hmm, i think these people are getting ripped.

I am a SKILLED worker. I have worked hard through my apprenticeship (started at $8.25 an hour) to learn the jobs I have performed at Cat. The machines out there are very complex. There is much more than just pushing a button. If you are running a test stand 7 the part fails the test, your knowledge, experience, and ability to read & interpret the read out from the computer combine to help you know how to fix the problem or if it's a machine problem. CNC machine operators learn how to achieve the very tight tolerances required for the high tech machinery of today. They are required to take a machining class, and then have intensive on the job training. They learn how to compensate for dramatic changes in external temperature or humidity, which can have an equally dramatic effect on results. Joliet Cat is a hydraulics manufacturer, and hydraulics require specialized knowledge and experience. We are worthy of our hire, and we do not deserve to have our wages & benefits cut. We do want to work, we just want to be treated fairly, and to have the respect we have earned for our hard work and time invested in our training.

You tell them...! Unskilled workers my foot....! There are more "OVERQUALIFIED" AMERICANS seeking a LIVING....than the media is reporting. People who can't find work are being disqualified from being hired because of STUPID REASONS SUCH AS.....their CREDIT RATING...OR BEING TOLD THEY ARE OVERQUALIFIED...! It is a death spiral for the upper and middle classes. If you lose your livelihood...you are in trouble.....unless you can find a way out of their box.

Problem is American consumers would rather " save money" and buy Foreign made crap and shop at the Corporate OLIGARCHY...Than pay a little more and buy from small American owned and operated businesses....THAT IS WHY SMALL BUSINESSES AND UNION JOBS ARE DISAPPEARING ...!

No unskilled union workers? Are you saying they have degrees? They have gone to a trade school? They have served apprenticeships?
You may want to google that one.
Line workers do none of the above, hence the term unskilled. If someone wants to pay their dues by bettering themselves in one of the above mentioned ways they would have a better chance at higher wages.

Right on Dan.

And JH, there is nothing wrong with organizing, and there is nothing wrong with striking for something you believe in. There is also nothing wrong with people commenting and not agreeing with your position or mine for that matter. The rub usually comes when you start asking people to help, when they don't think the basis for your problem is valid. i.e. I can work if i choose to, the employer has work available to me and is willing to pay me, I choose to strike and am off for over three months and have lost thousands of dollars in pay to get hundreds of dollars in raise if the employer settles, and I need a hand out from others because I chose not to work when I have a job available. Usually food drives are not for people who have jobs, they are for the elderly, homeless, and unemployed not the underemployed.

To me, a skilled worker is someone who has completed something like a 2 or 4 yr manufacturing program. I think some of these people call themself skilled because they have on the job training and lots of repetitious work. This is not the same thing as going through a 2 or 4 yr program. They may be able to do the same job, but the person who has completed the program will be the more valuable employee, as he will not need the same amount of time to learn a new job.

Good God Dan ..there are more underemployed and unemployed Americans with College degrees and other TRADE SKILLS...LIKE BRICK MASONS....and many other TRADE SKILLS who either can't find work in their field of expertise or are working for spit. Every American CANNOT AFFORD COLLEGE...NOR CAN THEY AFFORD TO QUIT THEIR LOUSY LOW PAYING JOBS TO RE EDUCATE THEMSELVES. IF YOU WANT TO LAY BLAME......BLAME THE 1% WHO ARE HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE MIDDLE CLASS
AND THE CORRUPT POLITICIANS WHO ARE AIDING AND ABETTING IT...!

Not the link... the divide the politicians are causing. Divided WE fall!

We are not asking for MORE! Don't YOU get it? We want to keep what we have! The only raise we are asking for is to keep our cost of living increases we had under the last contract. We would receive up to a few pennies every three months based on the price index. It rarely amounted to anywhere near $1 a year. They to increase our insurance costs by about 2 1/2 times, freeze pay, freeze pensions, trample on our seniority rights, take away bonuses we received under the last contract for hard work, and so on. Their contract proposal does nothing but take away pay & benefits we have worked hard & long for. We refuse to lie down & accept a stomping of our rights and robbing of our benefits. It encourages favoritism as they want to be able to move people from job top job and shift to shift at any time for any reason for any amount of time. If my boss wants to put his new hire nephew in my spot that I worked 17 years to get, all he has to do is loan me out somewhere else. Is that fair? I don't think so!

Caring, I would suspect that if you were the superior operator, wouldn't putting a sub par operator doing your job reflect bad on your boss, because he would have to answer to his boss if the job was botched or not enough was accomplished. It sounds like you just want to make sure you don't lose the particular job you are doing now. The odds of that nephew scenario happening are slight.

CC, everyone wants to keep what they have. But, it is a recession. We all have to feel it some. If you have a job and it pays what you consider a reasonable wage, I suggest you go to it and get your pay checks. If you don't think you are getting what you are worth then you need to better yourself by quitting and going elsewhere.
No other jobs available you say? Then you better cherish the one you have.

They have trillions. They can spare a few billion to avoid prosecution for anything they do.

Shhh....They have Quintillions...

So for example, under the old contract you were making xxxx amount of $. Now you say under this contract, if you went back to work, you would be making xxx amount of $ ? So for example. if you went back Monday, just how much less an hr. would you be getting? By the way, I was talking about 2 or 4 year program of only classroom and performing at various training stations from the top to the bottom of different machines, plus training stations in the office. Probably pay cut and no overtime also.

As I said before, you are nervous about someone else performing your job better then you. As long its the same pay, any company has the right to manage. No harm, no foul. That alone is not reason enough to lose the money that has been lost, and will never, I repeat never be able to recoup.

Giving up thousands to get back hundreds is always a great idea M&M. And who cares if the person who temps is as good as I am but cheaper. I earned my stripes over the years and I deserve more. In a free market you would really need to earn it instead of seniority giving it to you.

It is amazing that somehow everything would just magically be better if it was not for the banks who stole quitillions and then hid it in maybe Greece. The banks stole the retirement money, kids futures, ruined manufacturing, and everything. These banks are amazing. They even made people sign mortgages and give them mobey to spend that they didn't even want. The people kept saying no, keep your money, I don't want to live above my means and I like saving money every month. But the banks alas forced the people to sign their names and take the money anyway and spend the money. This almost sounds like a story you would tell in front of a campfire. Now my next question would be, WHAT does this or some of the above have to do with union jobs and food drives. If anyone can let me know (besides Ivent because Ivent already must know) it would really be appreciated.

David H...your asked for it....Yes the banks did put the word LIAR..in LIARS LOANS. 1 in 4 loans were POOR QUALITY LOANS....THEY WERE SET UP TO FAIL.....EVEN IF YOU HAD AN ATTORNEY.....THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TOLD YOU HOW THE SCAM WORKED..... I could write paragraphs about how they swindled us...Like how they refied homes at the bubble price and you ended up with bubble price for borrowing your own equity...How they cross collateralized principal residences 5 or 6 times to collateralize a fraction of the loan value and gave ARM LOANS with no DISCLOSURE....How they never sold the loans to a trust as required to convert mortgage and note into a stock....they separated the mortgages and structured them as bonds....and EXPONENTIALLY OVERSOLD
interests in those...same with the NOTES....HUNDREDS OF TIMES PER INSTRUMENT.
NOT INCLUDING THE LAW THAT ONCE A MORTGAGE NOTE IS CONVERTED INTO A
STOCK IT CANT BE CASHED........THAT NOTE IS RENDERED A NULLITY.....TRYING TO
CASH IT FOR SOMETHING OF VALUE ...........LIKE SOMEONES PROPERTY.....IS UNJUST
ENRICHMENT......FRAUD.....AND COUNTERFEITING OF SECURITIES......
ONE ATTORNEY DISCOVERED HIS CLIENTS MORTGAGE WAS SOLD 607 TIMES....THAT IS WHY THE MORTGAGES ARE INSOLVENT... HERE IS A GOOD EXPLANATION FROM ELIIT SPITZER AND DYLAN RATIGAN WHY THE BAILOUTS WERE MORE UNJUST ENRICHMENT FOR THE BANKSTERS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtSmR7Z-Kg

The ongoing unjust enrichment of these failed institutions has everything to do with suffering for millions of Americans. That is the Globalist plan.
U.S. COURTS HAVE RULED....."When fraud enters a transaction, fraud vitiates EVERYTHING." "Deception is evaluated from the perspective of the unsophisticated consumer.".......If you would like me to cite the names of those rulings...let me know.

Living above our means....? Why would an FDIC INSURED INSTITUTION GIVE A "LOAN" TO SOMEONE WHO COULDN'T AFFORD IT......? THAT IS FRAUD IN ITSELF..!

I should add how the home equity scam worked. They told you they could "lend" you 20% of the current market value of your home...which was the bubble price. They "lent" you back your down payment....or less...and gave you a new mortgage and note at twice the price you paid plus a side note .....second mortgage for your own equity plus interest on both notes.... With the commercial property purchases they cross collateralized the principal residence with no spouse signature....they added that later....so it appeared to be a commercial loan not protected by RESPA or TILA...that fraud allowed them to very deceptively give an ARM LOAN that would fail and allowed them to cross collateralize the "loan" under the principal residence
multiple times under many guises which created multiple mortgages and notes for them to use as casino chips on Wall Street.

I hate to perpetuate this but, what did the poor souls do with the money they were forced to receive in these frauds? And in reality with some of these loans being no income verification, didn't the people getting the money many times perform a fraud of there own in fabricating information to get the money to start with? Somehow the consumer who knew they could not afford it is holding no blame for their situation.

I have a question, does every union member with the same seniority receive the same rate of pay?

Caring, you still didn't answer my question about how much your hr. rate would go down if you went back to work under the new contract. I have to assume it doesn't.

Hpw is the union stewart chosen? Do people vote him in? Is he liked better?

Did you ever consider why the supervisor might like someone better? is it because they are continuous learners, make improvements, have a great attitude, support the successful outcomes of the supervisor, etc? I feel that most people who do not realize why the supervisor might like someone better is because they are not doing what is extremely important to building sustainable business. It is every supervisor's hope to build sustainable business, grow jobs and opportunities and not have a negative impact on a community. If profits are down and the work community is not concerned with continuous improvement and finding new ways to continually gain efficiencies (true efficiencies that create more profits) then as product pricing becomes more compeitive there is less in the bucket to hand out. Employees should always be in the know of the future vision, the strategy to get their and what their responsiblity is to their work community. Unions are not needed when legislation to protect the worker is already in place. It is not like manufacturing prior to protective legislation. The unions should find their place as educators, trainers and get out of negotiation positions. Today's manufacturing employees are educated skilled workers ( or they should be) and are smart enought to do their own bidding. They do not need thug approaches such as the "rat patrol" and picketers to do that for them. It is the reason why companies outsource overseas...you do get that right?

If that would happen, wouldn't you have recourse with the human relations dept?

Cat had record profits for the last 2 1/2 yrs. The CEO's comp last year was up by 60% over the prev. year. During the tough years we have given many concessions to help keep Cat on top. If Cat is nervous about the future, maybe they should offer us a 3-4 yr contract instead of the 6 yrs. Ask top management to take 1-2% less in bonuses & put money away for the future. Why does it have to be the working people in the shop (who made it all possible) who have to take the pay & benefit cuts? If times were tough for Cat & Doug O. said,"I'm not taking all my bonuses & I'm freezing my pay, I need the union to do likewise" I think they would have a better response. Pay freezes should start at the top, expenses cut there first, & then work their way down. Chances are good if top management took pay cuts & freezes they wouldn't need to take away from the little guy. Personally I'm ok with Doug O. getting his 17 mil a yr pay. I just don't get why he wants to cuts into the little checks of us too! The newer people start at as little as $11 an hour, and cap out at about $18 per hour. Those who hired in before '05 & worked their way up to the top labor grades make up to $28 an hour. If they bust their butts & work 12 hrs a day, 6-7 days a week, they have a chance of breaking $100,000. Of course, they won't see their families & their bodies will give out much sooner from the back breaking labor. But by all means, cut their pay so Doug O & the like can keep their millions per year.

LG 4 are CNC machinists who operate complex machines with tight tolerances and a variety of tools, set-ups, fixtures, & programs which the operator must know how to adjust & change when needed. LG 3 is assembly & test specialist, as well as certain other machines. LG 2 is some machines that are usually not CNC, LG 1 is shop laborer. Each higher LG has increasing complexity & knowledge required and has a longer training and learning curve. Some classroom is required for the top 4 LGs. There are 3 pay scales in tier 1 for each of these jobs, you must gain proficiency in order to advance to the next scale. Everyone in that LG does advance, otherwise if they can't gain that proficiency they are demoted, moved, or fired, depending on their abilities in other areas. So it is a complicated system, and if a person can't learn the skills for one LG he can't make that money. Personal preference is also involved. Some people prefer assembly to machining, or machining to maintenance, or vice-a-versa. Hope that clears up your questions, and also gives you an idea how skilled we must be to keep working and advancing. No we don't necessarily have a college degree, (although many do!) but we do have years of training and experience. Classroom training can be excellent, but until you actually get in the shop & do the job, you won't understand how it actually all works.

Thank you for your response. According to my definition earlier of skilled which read:
"While most (if not all) jobs require some level of skill, "skilled workers" bring some degree of expertise to the performance of a given job. For example, a factory worker who inspects new televisions for whether they turn on or off can fulfil this job with little or no knowledge of the inner workings of televisions. However, someone who repairs televisions would be considered a skilled worker, since such a person would possess the knowledge to be able to identify and correct problems with a television.". Many of the workers would qualify as skilled.
On the pay side does everyone in each Tier make the same pay per hour per Teir regardless of performance? Also, if the jobs are as skilled as listed, how can the company hire an unskilled temp to do the work. Also, if the temp has the necessary skills, where did they acquire them, and if they are current union members do they need to give up their membership and benefits.
I an seperating this because I would really like an answer if you can, how does it make sense to loose many thousands of dollars in gross pay so that you can get back a couple hundred a year? It seems every time you strike you really move backwards. Thanks you for your answers.

If your logic for the top management to take pay and benefit cuts, would not the same hold true for politicians? Union leaders?

CC I can certainly understand why any worker would want to consider themselves "skilled" and why your union would want everyone to believe that. But every job has on the job training and in my view that doesn't count as "skilled." If you were able to start at CAT without any requirement of a degree, or certification, or whatever, I would consider the job to be unskilled. New workers at McDonald's have to work up to the fryer or the grill and have to train to become assistant managers. If the only skills you have qualify you to work in a CAT factory -- and god knows there aren't many other factories around, then you have no transferable skills. You have so far demonstrated no interest in acquiring new skills that make you marketable outside that tiny niche. So, long term, unless you have a sick rich uncle somewhere, you are absolutely screwed in the workplace. Man up and do something about it. Sorry to be so harsh, but it's the truth.

I am always surprised when people don't understand how important it is to work for a well managed and profitable company, so that they have a job.

Apparently we are not aware of the legislation put on the books the last few decades. Suggestion: Take some business law classes. individuals make up America. If America is regressing it is because individuals want to stay stuck or regress but the truth is many are moving forward and improving and doing things better than ever. The consumers (you) drive what business does. Do not buy their products or their services if you do not think it is a good product or company. Do not work for companies you think need unions to speak for their employees. They will not exist without people. People make up the companies if you have not observed. You do not seem happy with your employer...move on and find a place where you are happy and your passion drives you to success, not the money. If money is a driver you will never be happy, satsified or ever have enough of it.

WE WANT OUR MONEY....

I have taken a lot of those classes and have my 6 sigma green belt. I did enjoy working for Cat, & this is where I have invested my time & energy for my career. I am 54 years old with 17 years in at Cat. It is not easy to just go out & start a new business with nothing. I do have many job skills, I have a lot of experience in numerous fields. I was a team leader in my spot at Cat, and I have done everything possible to improve and advance myself. Now the companies that I have applied at do not want to hire me because we are on strike and no matter what I tell them they do not want to take a chance that i will go running back to Cat when the strike is over. Yes I could cross the picket line & go back to work, but I refuse to stab my brothers & sisters in the back that way. I loved working for Cat & was proud I did, now the mgmt. perspective has changed and it's all about making as much money as possible regardless of who it hurts or how quality is damaged. Cat is going to damage their reputation and lose their #1 spot if this continues.

If you are starting a business and you have the money to start it there should be no problem with the banks. It is when you don't have your own money to start the business that the banks become a problem. People were upsat when banks were "not doing a good job screening people for loans". Now when they start doing their job properly, people are saying they are to tough on start up companies. So what is the real answer?

Caring, your insurance cost will nearly triple. First, its my understanding it wil go up over the 6 yrs gradually, not at once, which means it could be a bargain, as costs are going up drastically. Secondly, depending on what you pay now, even going up that much, you guys still may be below the national average. Everyone I know, including myself, pays a monthly premium of $500 to $700. Now in 6 yrs, I can guarantee that price will go up, so you see what I mean, for 6 yrs you know what it will be, but for most people come Jan. we get raised.

The stabbing in the back I was talking about is the people crossing the picket line who will benefit from any positive gains the rest of us make by standing firm in our position. The more people who cross the weaker the position of the rest of us. The only weapon we have in this fight against unfair treatment is the withholding of our labor. We all deserve to be treated fairly and with respect. Again, we are not asking for huge raises. I could live with the insurance costs and pension changes. But I do believe the other changes Cat is demanding are simply for the purpose of trying to break the union. They have yet to negotiate in good faith. Negotiating is NOT saying "here is my offer, take it or leave it." This is what Cat has done. We know we will not get everything we want, that's why it's called negotiation. But we don't believe we should be the only ones doing the giving, it's supposed to be give & take. And as far as the jobs, I can't even get to an interview. If I could, I might have a shot at overcoming the objections to my job at Cat. Most places don't even respond to the application.